Episode Seven with Natalie Williams : from International Politics lecturer, and Academic Registrar to entrepreneur and luxury jewellery maker

After studying International Politics and gaining her PhD from Aberystwyth University, Natalie Williams became a lecturer - only to find she hated teaching.

Not sure what to do after that, she ended up working in academic administration at the university, rising through the ranks to become a Quality Assurance Manager and an Academic Registrar.

Following a divorce and heading for 40, she felt the need for change, so when a secondment opportunity came up to go to Mauritius to set up a branch campus, she leapt at it. 

Little did she realise that it would lead her to change career completely and to her discovering her passion by unleashing her inner artist.

Hear how she struggled with conflicting values, identified vital lessons from doing a PhD, and how she trusts her own internal guidance system to make decisions as a successful entrepreneur and luxury jewellery maker.

Natalie can be contacted via:
Website: https://yourliri.com/ 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourliri
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/your_liri/ 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/YourLiri 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-williams-a6328779/

SHOW REFERENCES:

Aberystwyth University – world-class international politics department

RE-INSPiRED Professional– the career change programme Natalie did with Carolyn Parry

Jim Fortin– American subconscious self-transformation coach

TO CONNECT WITH / HEAR MORE FROM CAROLYN:

Connect with Carolyn on social media:

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Why not sign up for her career change newsletter on LinkedIn:

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Facebook Group

Find out more about Carolyn's new book:

'Change Your Story: Escape from a job you hate and create a career you love - on purpose.'

Interested in hiring Carolyn as your coach?

Why not book a free 30-minute discovery call with Carolyn to discuss your needs and find out more about how she can help you to change your story?

https://bit.ly/Coffee-with-Carolyn

Transcript

Ep 7 with Natalie Williams

[00:00:00] Carolyn: We all have a story. Sometimes it's a story we choose and sometimes it's a story we fall into. That choice can either work for us or against us. Now according to experts Gallup, on average, we spend 81,396 hours at work over the course of our lifetime. In fact, the only thing we spend more time doing than working is sleeping.

[00:00:28] And yet, as Gallup's research shows, only around one in 10 people in the UK truly love the work they do. And that's the reason for this podcast - to help the nine out of 10 of us who dread the thought of weekday mornings. I remember myself how that felt before I changed my own career story. 

[00:00:46] My name's Carolyn Parry, and I'm an award-winning career coach and speaker who spent the first 17 years of my career working in business heading steadfastly away from who I really was.

[00:00:55] It took a dose of burnout and a lot of time in what I still fondly call the Rodin pose, thinking about what I wanted before I was able to escape from a job I hated and create a career I still love as much today as I did when I first started 20 years ago. So, if you are like I was and the thought of weekday mornings fills you with dread, or that quiet voice inside you keeps telling you that there is definitely something better waiting for you, why not join me in a conversation with an inspirational guest about how they have successfully changed their career story.

[00:01:27] Full of ideas, strategies, and insights drawn from those real-life stories, the Change Your Story Podcast will help you to discover your why and what else really matters to you, so you too can create a working life you love. 

[00:01:41] Welcome to Change Your Story.

[00:01:45] It's my absolute pleasure to welcome Natalie Williams 

[00:01:49] to this episode of Change Your Story, Natalie, hello and welcome.

[00:01:55] Natalie: Hello and thank you for having me. I'm really looking forward to it.

[00:01:58] Carolyn: Thanks Natalie. Now your career journey's taken you from working in the ivory towers of academia at Aberystwyth University, which is where you and I originally met somewhere around about the early mid two thousands. And it took you from the seaside of Aberystwyth to another sea seaside, but in a far more tropical place.

[00:02:14] And that was Mauritius. And then you came back to South Wales in a totally different life, from working in academia to becoming a luxury jewellery designer running your own business, Your Liri, and that's the whole journey we are going to explore today. So, let's go back to that very beginning time, because I know you grew up in Bryn, near Port Talbot in South Wales, didn't you?

[00:02:35] What was that like?

[00:02:36] Natalie: Yes, I did. And you know, you could say it was an idyllic childhood, it was this gorgeous village, in the hills. Bryn is Welsh for hill. And yes, it is a village on a hill or amongst the hills. Very idyllic, very rural, the old cliche, you know, everybody knows everybody. You could walk safely at night, that kind of thing, close to many towns, a really, really close-knit community. And that's where I'm back,  at the moment. And it's been really lovely being back actually, because I, I hadn't lived here for 25 years, so coming back was, exciting, but also quite daunting.

[00:03:15] You know, will I know anyone? Will anyone know me? But it's absolutely lovely. Really nice to be back.

[00:03:22] Carolyn: Well, I'm glad you're back. Going back to those very early days, you grew up with your parents and your sister, what was that childhood like? Apart from idyllic? What was around the kitchen table? What sorts of conversations? Did your parents work? What was your sister up to?

[00:03:39] Natalie: Well, my father, he was the only breadwinner at the time. my mother always tells me the story of "when we decided to have you, I decided to stay at home. You know, it was the best thing, you know, your father would work, I would stay home and I would bring you up." So, my father was often in work, working very long hours. 

[00:03:55] He worked in Ford's, in Bridgend, so a lot of the time he was away. But my parents were always very politically, aware, a lot of political discussions, you know, my father was in the trade union. My mother was also, she taught union studies during my teenage years. So my parents were very, aware of politics, you know, my father would often be on strike, that kind of thing.

[00:04:19] So I was very aware of the issues, of the days. I think that's probably where my initial interest in politics came from. My mother would always say, "well, you were reading newspapers at seven years of age." I was always very interested in what was going on in life, you know, and how that affected people. And I think it was born out of… my father worked the line in Ford's, you know, trade unions striking that kind of thing. What was justice? What was social justice? So yeah, that was the sort of, you know, the environment and the sort of discussions that we had as a family and, you know, that did affect what I studied at school, what I studied at university, and probably, the pathways that I took early on in life and how it affected my decisions to change my career later on in life.

[00:05:08] Carolyn: And we'll explore a bit more of that a little later on, I think. So let's go back to that first big choice, because people often talk about it as being a big choice and that's that A Level choice. What did you choose and what did you have to leave behind?

[00:05:21] Natalie: So I chose for my A Levels, it was back in the day where people only did three. And if you did three and a half or four, my goodness, you were taking a lot on your plate then. I chose French, German and History, and in those days, French and German were seen as, oh my goodness, they are so hard. the difference between an A level and a GCSE in that subject was huge.

[00:05:42] I had an aptitude for languages. I found them easy. I enjoyed doing them. I also really enjoyed history. I think it came from my interest in the world, what happened before, how it affected how we are today, that kind of thing. So, the choice of my levels, I was very, very happy with them.

[00:06:00] They were interesting, they were stimulating. But it did mean that, I left behind one of my favourite subjects, which was art. The reason I didn't take art as an A level because, I don't know if it's true now, but I was told, "You'll never get into university with an art A Level, it's a soft subject. If you want to go to university, you have to demonstrate, um, academic and intellectual rigour." “Okay then. So, I had better take the difficult A levels.” And that's what I did. I enjoyed them, but it did mean I had to sacrifice my interest in art, which I had done for GCSE. I had absolutely enjoyed.

[00:06:37] We had a fantastic teacher, I'll mention her, Ms. Sian Samual Thomas, I'm not sure if she still teaches in a Welsh University, but she was so ahead of her time. You know, we did so many different kind of things. It wasn't just drawing, painting. We did textiles. We did ceramics. I absolutely enjoyed myself. So, when I couldn't take it or I was advised not to take it for A levels, I was quite disappointed.

[00:07:05] Carolyn: It's funny how hearing you there - two things. One, sometimes you leave behind the thing you love and that hurts, and it leaves a trace and it clearly, I think, has left a trace because we'll pick that story up later on where you've gone back into tapping into that sense of creativity. Is that something that's really important to you, that sort of creative flare? 

[00:07:24] Is it something that you do so easily, it's like breathing.

[00:07:27] Natalie: It is now. it was funny you said, you know, leaving something behind you love leaves a trace. I didn't realize at the time that it had. I thought I'd buried it. I was totally mentally focused on my A levels, making sure I got into a good university to get a good degree so I could get a good and safe job. I thought I buried this creative side to me. But I never really had, because when life got difficult or boring to use a simple word, would turn to creative pursuits and it was in 2010 or 11 that certain things were happening in my life. The job I had was completely uninspiring. Life was not going as I wanted to. Where did I turn to? The creative side of life. And, you know, I'd always been passionate about jewellery, and I think my mother may have been dabbling in it at the time, so that, “let me have a look at this” and I've not looked back since. And yeah, you could say it's taken over my life, but that thing that I had left behind when I was 16 years of age, came flooding back in a way that I couldn't stop when I was a lot, a lot older.

[00:08:42] Carolyn: And you can hear the passion in your voice as you're talking there. We'll pick that story up again a little bit later. I said there are two things that I heard when you were talking there. We've picked up one of them, which is the art piece. The other is the impact of a teacher to inspire and ignite a talent, which clearly Sian did for you.

[00:09:00] Were you the first in your family to go to university?

[00:09:04] Natalie: I wasn't, my mother had gone few years before me, so she was a mature student. She hadn't gone when she was younger, I think she started when she was 41. She'd finished in 94. So, I then went in 95. So I wasn't actually the first, I was the second but I went at the right time. 

[00:09:24] Carolyn: There were some values in what you were saying there about a safe, secure job and it sounds like there was almost sacrificing the emotional side, that artistic side for the intellectual side that says university, good job study. So, a more sort of conscious, logical approach to career rather than maybe something involving a bit more emotion, Is that a fair comment?

[00:09:47] Natalie: It is. But I think there was an emotion attached to it. And I think the emotion was fear. I know a lot of parents are fearful for the futures of their children. They want their children to do well, be safe, be secure, don't have to worry about anything. And that was very present when I was young, you know, I felt it and it was passed on to me. So, I was fearful of not getting qualifications, not getting a job, and that kind of thing. And that fear is what drove me to the secure path. But the security, if it's not in an area that you want to be in, ultimately will lead to unhappiness. And the idea of pursuing something that made me happy, I thought, well, that's a bit decadent - happiness. You know, we don't do happy, we do safe, secure, working hard. That's what I'd had all my life. 

[00:10:36] Carolyn: Until now, and we'll pick that up again in a bit. We'll find out whether it is happiness that's driving in now rather than that fear and drive to take the conventional route, if you like. So, there you are. You've got your A levels. You did really well, two As and the B, and then you chose your first university, which happens to be Aberystwyth, by the sea, a first degree in international politics.

[00:10:57] You said earlier about politics was talked about around the table and your father in a trade union, presumably that's what informed the choice of Interpol, was it?

[00:11:06] Natalie: It was. Yes. And I remember when I was doing my A Levels, our German A level, we had to…, there was four elements, you know, reading, writing, speaking in, and listening. And for my speaking part, I spoke to the guy about politics. Oh, I was there talking about the Labour Party, all these kind of things.

[00:11:24] And yes, that did inform my choice of degree. I went to Aberystwyth because I'd been to Aberystwyth on holidays for the past 20 years before then, so I felt safe in Aberystwyth. The open day was great. As soon as I went there, I thought, yeah, I'm definitely coming here. And I had the best education. It wasn't just the knowledge of facts and what happened, it was the ability to think critically, and it always surprised me when I would speak to other people who had done different degrees how, I wouldn't say they weren't thinking critically, but they would accept things in society and not question them.

[00:11:59] I'm always so grateful for that department, for giving me that. 

[00:12:04] Carolyn: Well, they have got a world class reputation as well, haven't they? They've got students from all around the world and some really famous alumni as well, of course, apart from yourself, Natalie. So, you did a first degree and then you went on for more, maybe around some of those questions that you were talking about.

[00:12:19] You did a master's in international theory, didn't you?

[00:12:23] Natalie: I did. And that was a great, great degree to have, exploring you know, why things happen in the world, not just the what, but the why. And obviously we'd look at the different theoretical approaches. I was probably still looking for the answers. You know, why the world is as it is. What makes the world tick? 

[00:12:42] So again, it was only a year. Very intense, very enjoyable, a completely different experience from my undergraduate degree. I think I had a bit more fun during my masters, you know. When I was an undergraduate, I was very much just studying, and doing my part-time job with my masters. Yes, I did those as well, but I had a lot more fun.

[00:13:01] So I think I was starting to, develop, in myself as well. So that was another great year at that department.

[00:13:07] Carolyn: And then there's that moment of choice, isn't there? Where do I go next after a master's? And you made a big choice, didn't you?

[00:13:14] Natalie: I have to say, after my masters, I didn't know what to do, in life. I just had no clue. You know, as I say, I think when I left my art behind the idea of what I was passionate about, I wasn't sure because it, I was still so very much thinking of the safety and the security, and I still didn't know what job, what career I wanted. So, "right, what shall I do?" I still had questions. I still had questions I wanted to ask, and answers I needed. So, I did a PhD, and this PhD was based on something that I had done in my final year of my undergraduate degree, where I had the chance to work for four months, for an MP in Westminster. And at the time I was working with the MP and they were looking at this international investment treaty. It was a global international investment treaty where really, they wanted to take down all these barriers so multinational corporations could do as they wanted across countries, but it didn't materialize. So, I was really looking into the reasons for the failure of this agreement.

[00:14:17] What I had done when I was 20 years of age was still impacting me when I was doing my PhD. So, you know, that was a great three years, I think it was, very, very tough, very, very challenging. I know a lot of people come out of doing a PhD feeling completely exhausted.

[00:14:35] I was, mentally, you know, it’s not for the fainthearted, but something I'm very glad I did because, it's given me some very important skills that I still have today. And, I know I couldn't run the business that I have today without the skills I learned during that time.

[00:14:52] Carolyn: Which ones in particular? Are you talking about personal characteristics like resilience or something different?

[00:14:58] Natalie: It is. It's the ability to push through when the going gets tough. For a long time, after my PhD, we'll probably discuss it later on, during my career, I was coasting. It was easy, it was comfortable, it paid well, but I was coasting, I was not happy, but it was safe and secure, but I wasn't happy with it, and I wasn't happy with the easiness of it.

[00:15:21] I wanted the challenge and the ability to take on a challenge and to be resilient throughout the challenge was still in me. I think that's why I found the job after that particularly dull and, and interesting. but yes, it was definitely, you know, push through, don't give up, every failure is a learning experience, that kind of thing. It was just that grit and determination, it just stands you in good stead for a lot of things in life. You don't realize it at the time, but now I thank goodness, that I did it. 

[00:15:50] Carolyn: And obviously it taught you a lot. So, you'd had a little look at what politics was like, close up by going to Westminster. That didn't attract you. So, there you are, you've got multiple degrees. You're now going for your first, let me put it this way, professional role. You end up working at the university, didn't you? What were you doing there?

[00:16:07] Natalie: Yes. and again, I didn't know what to do, because this idea of having a passion and pursuing it really was knocked out at such a young age in favour of pursuing something safe and secure. I just didn't know what to do and, you know, I was felt safe in Aberystwyth, so I began working for a minority language unit, in the university, where my initial role was to organize an international conference. Now, again, at the time, you're probably thinking, "Oh, why did I do that?" There was just something I drifted into. But again, it gave me the skills that I need to do my current job, you know, the organization, the compartmentalization, the being on time, meeting deadlines, so that was my first job there. And then I was a researcher there. And, after that I went back to academia and became a lecturer in my old department, international politics.

[00:17:01] Carolyn: So, you picked up some skills, had some experiences. Now you find yourself standing in front of students rather than sitting in the student seat looking at the lecturer. How was that for you?

[00:17:10] Natalie: I hated it. I realized straight away that teaching is not my forte. I was very, very impatient. I wasn't teaching my specialized subject. I was teaching a lot through the medium of Welsh and, because at the time, I'm not sure if it's the same now, the department wanted to improve its Welsh language provision.

[00:17:31] You were asked to teach anything and everything. So, a lot of the times I was just one step ahead of the students with what I was teaching them. So, there's a lot of stress, to learn quickly, teach something, teach students that maybe they weren't interested and no, it just wasn't for me. And the main reason that I stopped teaching ultimately was because I realized that to become an academic, you have to be so passionate about your subject area.

[00:17:59] You have to live and breathe it, because being an academic is so highly pressurized. You have to love it. I didn't love it. Although I was into politics, I loved asking questions about the world. Ultimately it wasn't my... it didn't set me a light to the extent that I could make it my life, that I could endure the stresses of the job for it.

[00:18:21] So I thought, no, I have to leave. I stayed there for about a year. I left without another job to go to. So yeah, that was my first sort of taking a risk in life.

[00:18:31] Carolyn: That's brave to do that, isn't it? When you go, Hmm, this really isn't working. I can't stand the pain anymore, and anything's got to be better than what I'm doing now. So, there you are. You pull the plug from the mothership. You haven't got an income. What do you do?

[00:18:45] Natalie: Well, as you say, I think the pain was so intense and I just, despite being told, be safe, be secure. I just couldn't do it. And I think when you get to that stage, anything is better. So I quit my job in the January, I applied for another job in the university. This was at the time an administrative job in the Dean's office. I got the job and started three weeks later. So, you could say, well, you dodged a bullet there, Natalie. You had an easy time. You were lucky the job came up, but it did. And yeah, I found myself another job. 

[00:19:24] Carolyn: So, you found yourself another job. Not everybody understands what a dean does at a uni. What's their role?

[00:19:30] Natalie: In the university there are levels of management and you have your departments, you have your departmental heads. Departments are grouped into faculties, and a Dean heads the faculty. So I was working in the dean's office, and it was the time that Aberystwyth University degree awarding powers, so they needed an extra pair of hands. So, I was doing a lot of the administration, the report writing for that. And it was… it was fantastic. I loved it. It was a project where you had to gather bits and bobs and make it all fit together into a coherent document. And no, I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed myself and I remember the then academic secretary…, how would you describe that? I'm sure he was the head of ensuring the university follows all the academic regulations. He said, "Well, we have a job coming up in the academic office. We would like you to apply." So, I applied for it. And yes, I worked, in the academic office, on the seafront in Aberystwyth. It's a beautiful place. I can even see my office now. And I worked there for the next five years, I think, in that post.

[00:20:36] Carolyn: Okay, so I was thinking as you were talking then about and describing that project, it sounded like a PhD, a mini-PhD in a way where you're having to go and gather resources, make sense out of it, and write a report at the end. Did it feel a bit like that?

[00:20:50] Natalie: It did, but without the pressure, without the need to meet your supervisor every couple of weeks and think, "Oh my goodness, what the hell are they going to say about my latest chapter now?" because it's brutal. Doing a PhD is brutal. You get torn to shreds, and that's where the grit and determination comes in to carry on in face of that criticism, it's not always constructive either. Sometimes it can be very, very, very brutal. So doing the reports for the degree awarding powers was a lot more enjoyable. It was a fun project. Of course people were commenting, but it wasn't to the degree that you get, and it wasn't for the same purpose as a PhD. Yeah, it was a way again for me to draw on my skills and I thoroughly enjoyed my time.

[00:21:32] Carolyn: And of course it led to lots more people being able to get their degrees, because Aberystwyth did get its degree awarding powers, from that project, didn't it, and the work that you all did together. So, there you are, you've moved into the academic office. 

[00:21:43] So what does the academic office do for those who go "academic office? What's all that about? 

[00:21:47] Natalie: So, the academic office at the time, I think it may have changed now. It was formed from a lot of small departments, but ultimately it was the administrative hub of people that made sure the university followed its academic standards its regulations to make sure that the university could guarantee that it was offering degrees of the appropriate standard. So in a way, we were the policeman of the university and there was often well probably still is a lot of tension between academics and people in the academic office because, you know, rule breakers, they want to do what they want but they can't, They have to follow the rules, so there was always a lot of tension, which was sometimes, quite funny. It was a lot of banter, so that was great. But at the time the graduation office was part of the academic office and I worked with a lovely lady, called Alwen Daniel. She was of the most fantastic bosses I ever had, a pleasure to work with. I worked with her on graduation ceremonies, she was the Secretary of the University Council and Senate at the time, so I was shadowing her. And then when she retired, I think it was 2010, I took over her post as the Academic Registrar, so I was then responsible for organizing the university Council, the Senate, graduation. There's a lot of committees involved. A lot of minute writing. Yeah, and boredom started to set in.

[00:23:09] Carolyn: I was going to say for somebody who's got a strong artistic flair and a creative flair, how was that for you?

[00:23:16] Natalie: Oh, it was mind numbing. Absolutely mind numbing. But again, it was safe, it was secure, very well paid. I had a lovely office overlooking the sea, fantastic people to work with. But the pain was there again, it really was, it started, I could start to feel it, and it was around a year or two after I'd started that job that this creative flair started to come out again.

[00:23:46] "Oh, I need something else in my life. I need some more stimulation," and that's where I started to dabble in jewellery making for the first time.

[00:23:54] Carolyn: So you couldn't get the growth, the creative growth at work that you craved and you channelled that into your jewellery making. What sort of things were you making?

[00:24:03] Natalie: Well, I couldn't get any form of growth in my job, creative or anything. I felt completely stunted. Although it was the easy, safe life, I was told, "Yes, this is what you need, this is what you want", when you've got the need or the want for more, it's absolutely crucifying you know? So, I thought, right, let's let... Well, no, it wasn't a conscious decision. I have to say it, my mother at the time was, she was, she's a very creative person as well. She does a lot more than I do, but she was making jewellery, so I'd always loved jewellery as a child, for me it was like being a princess when you could doll yourself up in all these glamorous pieces.

[00:24:46] So I started dabbling as well, and it was very, very basic stuff. anything made with beads, bracelets, that kind of thing. But then I started adding gemstones to necklaces, to earrings. But it was still very basic stuff at the time, and I did that for a couple of years. I then got divorced and I had to park it to one side, but then again, a few years later, it reared its head again.

[00:25:11] Carolyn: It's interesting, things have to break before growth can come. You've talked about the loss of obviously losing your partner, that divorce period and boredom and jewellery being the only thing, from what you're saying, that brought some lightness and joy into your life. An opportunity came along at the same time, didn't it?

[00:25:31] Natalie: It did. So it was 2014, no, 2013, the university decided it wanted to open a branch campus in Mauritius. And I was working for, with the Pro Vice Chancellor at the time on academic collaborations where we would collaborate with other academic institutions in the UK and abroad to offer our degrees or to bring students from them to us onto our degrees. So, you know, this opening of a campus fell into his remit, and I was working with him. So, yes, I took the role of the administrative head of the projects. I visited Mauritius in 2014. We went to see the players, to see the partners we were going to work with. At that time, I didn't think I was going to end up there at all. I thought, what island, wouldn't it be lovely to work here? Then later on in the year, it transpired that one of the posts they needed was a quality assurance manager. Well, that was what I was doing in Aberystwyth. I was recently divorced, I thought, "Do you know what, I need an adventure in life." I've been in Aberystwyth for 20 years. I've tried different jobs. None of them have satisfied me really, or the ones that did had ended. "Yes, let's move to a tiny island, the size of Ceredigion, on the other side of the world!” so I applied for the post. I got the job, I moved there in August, 2015.

[00:26:56] Carolyn: Well, that's a bit of a change, isn't it, for anybody who's going Ceredigion, what's Ceredigion? It's Cardiganshire in English. It’s got about 77,000 people who live in this county. What's the population in Mauritius roughly?

[00:27:08] Natalie: The population there at the time was 1.2 million. And yeah, you could sense that it was a lot more densely populated, but it was a tiny, tiny, island, boiling hot, then downpours of rain. But, yeah, I thought, you know what? I needed something totally different. I was absolutely scared witless, I won't lie! I was absolutely freaked out by it. But again, it's this drive in you and I've often thought of it. It's something in your soul that, that will just propel you. No matter what is going on in your head. Your head can be all over the place telling you all sorts of things, but the drive in your soul just overrides it, and no matter how scared you are or how much it goes against so many things you've learned, you can't stop it. You can feel yourself just going forward, and that's what I did. And I found myself in Mauritius.

[00:28:00] Carolyn: That's a lovely turn of phrase that drive in the soul. What do you think that's about?

[00:28:05] Natalie: I once heard someone say or read something: you can never suppress who you really are. And people of all walks of life do it. You know, everybody's got a public mask, or they pretend to be something they're not. But it will always come out. It will always come out, even your mind will tell you every logical reason why you shouldn't do something. But the body never lies The mind is a very strong tool, and the mind has caused me a lot of problems in, taking this path or that path, but ultimately, the soul or the body, or however you want to call it, it will always win, and that's why now whenever I want to make a decision, I listen to the physical sensations that I get and, it's a new way of thinking. It's not how I was brought up. I was brought up to override all of that, focus on what you should do in life. I'm not saying I've got rid of that completely because I haven't, but I work on that now. I listen to my body and my inner soul a lot more. And when I can sense the physical urge, I was once told that when you want something, your body will literally push yourself forward. And then when you don't, you will recoil and that it happens. It happens. That's my inner compass these days and that's what I work from.

[00:29:23] Carolyn: Many people would call that maybe intuition. So, when you are talking about that urge and you talked about a physical movement forward or back, so towards what you want or away from what you don't want, is there anything internal that you feel as well? Is there a sense of solar plexus, which is a yes, that's personal power, I'm going to move forward with that, which I know, is something I use all the time. Do you have the same thing?

[00:29:46] Natalie: Well, what I do is I get a sense of excitement and like electricity traveling through my body, and when I know that that sensation is there, I know it's the right thing. and it'll bring a smile to your face. Now, in my younger days, I would get it, but I say, "Oh, don't, ignore it. Ignore it. It's nothing. It's nothing. Quick, focus mentally, logically on what you've been told you need and want in life." Now, I listen to the intuition, ask a few logical questions, so, I mean, I'm not totally just being going off on one. but it's a lot more balanced now than it ever was.

[00:30:21] Carolyn: Interesting that emotional and intellectual intelligence meeting to create the answers that you need to move forward comfortably as somebody who runs their own business, and we'll move on to that in a minute. You talked about that sort of electricity that runs through you, does that have a centre for you when you know it's absolutely right?

[00:30:39] Natalie: Yeah. It comes from here - in the heart. A lot of people find it in their stomach, as you say, the solar plexus. For me, it always comes from the heart. Yeah.

[00:30:47] Carolyn: And for some people it's both. It can be both. It's the personal power “I want to do” and it's also the love of what I'm doing as well. For me, that's echoes of systems like the Indian chakra system where we have centres of energy, many would say. Fascinating. Having spent all those years logically processing and choosing, that certainly has changed significantly from the days when you're an academic administrator in a university, hasn't it? Probably your biggest shift as a person, I suspect, is that right?

[00:31:15] Natalie: Yes, definitely. And you know, I've said about my earlier programming of security, safety, that is still there. I still feel fearful, thinking, "What if, what if, what if?" But now I trust myself more. I trust life more. I'm not as fearful of life anymore. because in the last, I don't know, say seven years, I have gone on such a transformative journey.

[00:31:44] It's been a rollercoaster in personal development, and the image that always comes to my mind is climbing a vertical rock face constantly for seven years. You know, I spent so many years languishing, that's how I felt, you know, moving from one job to another that I didn't enjoy any. I had no passion, or I didn't think I had a passion. I'd spent so many years doing that, that I hadn't grown. You know, I'd stunted my growth on purpose to be safe and secure, so I hadn't grown. So once, I took off the shackles as it were, moved to Mauritius, oh my goodness. I think I experienced a lifetime in those five years. The things I experienced were absolutely crazy, good and bad. But I would always be thankful because it was just the delayed personal growth that I needed. And when I finally finished in my post there with the university, I took the ultimate leap and started my own business in a foreign country - as you do!

[00:32:42] Carolyn: Of course you do. And if you are you or other entrepreneurs, that's exactly what happens. You put the wind under your wings, and you go, "I'm going to jump, because it feels like the thing to do.” And clearly it felt like the thing for you to do. How did you make that leap?

[00:32:59] Natalie: Oh my goodness. You said it felt like the thing to do. Again, I had the huge argument. I wouldn't say it was the discussion, because it was a huge argument between my head and my heart. Again, the heart was pushing me forward. The head was saying, "Oh my goodness, you are absolutely crazy. no job security. My parents were again, well, not so much my mother, my father, "Oh my goodness, I can't believe you're leaving such a secure, well-paid job." So all the old stories were still there, but this time, the urge there was just too much and nothing was going to stop me. None of the fear stories. Nothing. Nothing stopped me. And yeah, it was the best decision I've ever made in my life.

[00:33:38] Carolyn: And it's the fear stories we tell us, isn't it? And we can choose to tell a different story, which is clearly what you did. You made that decision. You had not travelled that path on your own. You'd had some support along the way through that process. At what point did you go, “That's it, I'm going here.” What happened as the catalyst that made you go, "It's the right thing. It might not be the right thing, but I'm going to do it."

[00:34:02] Natalie: Well, I remember we'd known each other for a long time before I moved to Mauritius. But as soon as I went to Mauritius unexpectedly, I started on this journey of personal growth, of looking towards the future. What was I going to do after Mauritius? And it took me by surprise actually that this was happening because I thought I'd just go to Mauritius, do my job, then something would happen. Again, this sort of coasting through seeing what would happen. I think six months after I moved to Mauritius, I got in touch with you. We did some brief coaching, but then six months later, I followed one of your coaching programs where we delved into all the questions of your passions, your why, this, that and the other.

[00:34:42] And I know a lot of personality traits came forward and one of them was that I was very self-determined, I could take control, take charge, and I had this creative side. So, it wasn't long after that that I set up my business side by side with my work at the university.  I did the jewellery part-time. My contract was to end two years after I went to Mauritius, but they extended it for a year because there was a change of circumstances at the university. So my contract ended in the August and I'd already planned six months before this is what I was going to do. I was going to take voluntary redundancy, I'd saved up some money, and I was just going to take the leap and see what happened. I can't believe I did it now. 20 years before that, I would never, ever have done it. The fear would've been too much, but the fear was still there. But this time I thought, I either go for it now or you never do. I think I was 40 at the time, and a lot of people would say, “Oh, you're too old for this, that, and the other.” But what I'd realized is... you know, I did beat myself up a bit because, "Oh, look at all these years you've wasted. Now you've found your passion." But everything, everything I had done before then had given me all the skills I needed. It had given me all the personal development time I needed to be able to do this at the right time.

[00:36:03] I could never have started my own business in my twenties. So, in a way, I'm glad I didn't follow my passion. I'm glad that I went through a challenging PhD, that I had those years of boredom. But yes, I did develop the skills because absolutely everything put me in the right place at the right time to do what I'm doing now.

[00:36:22] Carolyn: It's funny, isn't it? When we are in it, we don't always see its value, but when we look back at it, or we look down on that journey to now, all those different chapters and changes, suddenly we see the value of it and what seemed like the pain of that journey at the time, it puts in a whole different light. And you've got a toolkit now and mindset to be able to be successful as an entrepreneur.

So, there we are. You've decided to take the leap of faith because that's very often what this sort of thing's around, it's incredibly common at the age that you made that leap of faith. It's somewhere between 39, 42-ish that people tend to go, " The life I'm living, how did I get here? This is not what I want. I'm going to have a different one." That's something I went through myself. If you look at the literature in careers work, it's a very typical transition period where people just are reviewing life, it's midlife career review if you like, and people are going, "oh God, no. I can't face another 17 years of this. I really can't. Something's got to give." So, there you are. You take the leap of faith, you back yourself rather than listening to the voice of parental wisdom, let's put it that way. And you start your business. What do you call it?.

[00:37:29] Natalie: Well, at the time, I was looking for a catchy, short name. When I started making jewellery before, part-time back in Aberystwyth, it was called Natalie Adele Jewellery, because those are my names. I thought, "No, do you know I want something snappy that means something, that sounds pretty." So the word that kept coming to my mind was freedom. I thought, "Oh, freedom. Yeah. Okay. That is not very pretty." So, I looked up online, different ways of saying freedom in different languages. So, I was looking through them all and I looked through this word "liri" and it's Albanian for freedom. I thought, do you what, I'm going to use that. It's such a pretty word, it encapsulates what I am finally feeling in life, what I now know is important. I spent all these years not feeling free, but rather very drained because of the stories I've been told and I've been telling myself. Now I actually feel this freedom, this jewellery business reflects that freedom, let's call it freedom, in a lot prettier word.

[00:38:32] Carolyn: So Your Liri was born.

[00:38:34] Natalie: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:34] Carolyn: How has that changed you and, how did other people see you change as well? What difference did they see in you as you've taken that leap and started your business?

[00:38:43] Natalie: Nobody said anything to me how they saw me change, but I saw myself change, in that I was just pushing through all the fears, all the doubts, all the stresses. You know, a challenge would come up, and rather than giving in, I just pushed through, pushed through, pushed through. But I think that had always been there, you know. With a PhD, like I said, if anyone's listening who's ever done a PhD, they will know that it messes with your mind. It affects your self-esteem. One minute you're up, one minute you're down, dependent on the comments of other people. It's so competitive and everybody is just there to you, but you push through because it's what you want to do. And I thought that that had gone from me because, you know, I would just sort of languish for a while. Yes, I discovered it when I started working in Mauritius, but it was there with a vengeance when I started my own business because starting the company in Mauritius was, I swear to goodness. I could have had numerous heart attacks. You know, the country, they say it's great for business. It's, it's not, it was, it's so old fashioned, the hoops, the bureaucracy. You know, you're foreign, let's make you dance to our tune. It was absolutely crazy. And I had a three-month deadline in which to complete my application and get a successful application. It came in two days before the deadline, two days before Christmas, because I wanted to travel home for Christmas. Oh my goodness. But I did it, you know, and I know another entrepreneur out in Mauritius. He's doing very well, and he's had similar experiences, and it's just this dogged determination. You literally feel you're crawling across, you know... I can see somebody crawling across a river upstream, that's how you feel.

[00:40:34] But the passion and the want, and the knowing that this is what you've always wanted. You're not going to give up this especially at my age. You talked there about a midlife review. I hope that's not a nice way of saying midlife crisis…

[00:40:49] Carolyn: If you want to use the word crisis, use that. It was probably a crisis beforehand, but it's certainly an existential change for you, I think, in terms of your identity, from somebody who had rules and controlled rules to somebody who is actually totally free. It's a complete swing, isn't it, back to the true Natalie.

[00:41:05] Natalie: It's a complete swing. And I thought to myself, you know, I'm 40 years of age. I feel young, I feel healthy, let's do it. I did sort of think, "Oh, why is it only happening now? I should have done this years ago." But like I said, now I've been back in the UK two and a half years, and I've seen how my business has grown and developed, and I realize it's grown and developed because of a lot of the skills that I've had before. People say to me, so what do you do for a living, and I default to say jeweller, but I'm not a jeweller. Yes, I make the jewellery, but I'm the business owner. And the skills you have to have to be a successful business owner are completely different from a jeweller. You know, I could be a jeweller employed by someone, and again, that could be quite monotonous.

[00:41:44] You are just given the design and you make it. But to be a business owner, again, I have to pull on all the skills that I have developed over, the 20 odd years of my career to make it a success. Where I'm at, I've seen my old traits coming through, which you think you've buried, but no… they're just growing and growing and they're getting you to where you want to be.

[00:42:05] Carolyn: So. the jewellery that you make, is quite specific though, isn't it? Your proposition, It's not the normal, I'll just make you a piece of jewellery, it’s more specific than that.

[00:42:14] Natalie: So most of my work at the moment is focused on, recycling people's jewellery. I have limited edition collections because the focus of my jewellery is creating, high quality, limited edition jewellery. The reason behind it was to empower women to feel free to express themselves and a lot of my pieces are quite statement. You feel you're making a statement when you're wearing them, of who you are. So, there's limited edition collections. There's bespoke pieces, but the main work that I do is recycling jewellery that people have inherited or they've had sitting in their jewellery box for, I don't know how many years And I came across that, quite by accident really. A couple of years ago, when I moved back to Wales, an old school friend of mine got in touch and her mother had just died. And she said, "I'd like a ring with my mother's birthstone and my birthstone and it's so fantastic, but I've also got this wedding ring of my Gran's." So, I had this idea, "Why don't I create you a trilogy? Your mother's birthstone, yours either side, and your Gran's, so you've got three generations of women in one ring?" And since then, it's just absolutely taken off. You know, I think people love the idea of reusing what they have. It's environmentally friendly, it can bring the cost down, especially when we're talking about gold and diamonds. But they're also getting this highly personalized service where they get something made for them. And it enables me to be very highly creative because I'm looking at everything individually. It's not mass production, it's looking at individual pieces, but I still have to be a businesswoman about that, so I can marry my creative side, but still use the skills to be a businesswoman… the cost, the customer service, all that kind of thing. So, it is really the perfect marriage between my creative side, but the organizational, managerial sides and the skills that I've developed over the last 20 odd years.

[00:44:09] Carolyn: And it gives you challenge, which is something you said early on was important to you, that you would miss that challenge in the roles that you'd moved into. And this gives you, by the sounds of it, that perfect blend between challenge, maybe almost, I speak as an entrepreneur, business owner, banging your head against a brick wall, trying to fix something that suddenly has gone totally wrong and shouldn't have, and wasn't your fault, but it's your problem. It gives you that challenge, doesn't it? And it must give you a massive sense of achievement as well.

[00:44:36] Natalie: Yes! Challenge on a good day, stress on a bad day. Oh, I mean, as you know, running your own business, it's the crash course in personal development, you know what you're made of. I work now -  it's six days a week. I used to work seven days a week. But I realized that was leading to burnout, but I'd never, ever change it for the world. I would never change it for the monotony, the security inverted commas of an employed position, I remember, when we were doing our mentoring, when I was in Mauritius, that I like to take charge to work for myself. I love the fact that I can do that now I think that's probably one of my core values. The fact that I can dictate my timeframe, what I do. You know, I'm a very self-driven person anyway, so it's not like, well, I can work for myself, and I can lounge about doing nothing. Yeah, I can work for myself, and I can set my timetable because I know sometimes when you work in employment, if it's not stimulating you, you can be very bored. And I have a lot of energy. So, the energy that I have helps me to cope with the challenges and the stresses and to be able to drive it forwards. and I would never, ever change it for the world. You know, it's stressful. Sometimes it's scary, it's very scary. But ultimately, it feeds what I am, somebody who needs that challenge, and it makes you feel alive. I remember certain points during my employed career, I would think I just feel dead inside and there's nothing worse. there's nothing worse than feeling dead inside. So, I would rather the challenges and the stresses, I'd rather it because it gives you the sense of life. Yeah, definitely.

[00:46:13] Carolyn: That's a lovely phrase, ‘a sense of life’. And you talked about burnout as well in that same section there, in that same comment. How do you deal with the stresses and strains on the one hand, and the risk of burnout and the joy of life, not just working either? How do you square that?

[00:46:33] Natalie: With difficulty, it's something I have to work very hard on. So what happened was before Christmas, you know, as you can imagine, it was crazy. You know, I had orders right, and centre to get ready. Before Christmas, I was working 12 hours, seven days a week. And I said to myself, “Right, I'm going to take time off over Christmas, at least a week.” I didn't do that. Okay. I put my tools down, but I was still advertising, I was still dealing with client communications, and I didn't take enough time off work. So, when January rolled round, I was still feeling the stress of it, and really, I just had to take a step back and say, "Look, if you're going to carry on this, you know, you are going to burn out." I was on the way to not enjoying life, and, just had to force myself to spend some time planning, you know. How was I going to work, compartmentalising my days, sectioning my days? What was I doing on certain days? Making sure that Sunday was completely free, that I didn't speak to any clients, because you know, these days everyone's on WhatsApp and Messenger, they expect an answer straight away. You have to have that mental space from it. And, so far this year, I have stuck to it. I've been pursuing more hobbies, albeit only one day a week. But at the moment, I feel that's a good balance. I know some people say, “Well, if you enjoy doing it, you can do it all the time.” Well, that's not actually true because it's still very mentally and physically demanding, and the body just needs a rest. You can enjoy doing anything, but if it's a physical and mental effort, you literally just need to do something that's completely different. It's taken me a while and especially when your business is growing and growing. You think, "Oh, if I take my foot off the pedal now, it could all collapse." So, you always just want to keep going the going's good, you know? But no, I've taken foot off. I don't respond to client communications at certain times. I've not seen any change. A friend of mine said, you know, clients will always challenge your boundaries. They don't care if you burn out.

[00:48:36] They just want their jewellery then and then, and yes, I'm always wanting to meet their deadlines, but ultimately you do have to look after your health because, without it, and I know it sounds trite and as I've got older, it's something I do appreciate, you know, you need your health for everything. I see so many people without it. And that's one thing I never want to be without. So, I don't want to put myself a position where I'm physically and mentally unable to carry on because I do enjoy it. But you do have to care of yourself in the process, because when you're enthusiastic and want to do it, there is this, "I’ve got to keep going." No, no. You have to pull back.

[00:49:14] Carolyn: It's a bit like eating chocolates. I like eating chocolate, but I can't eat it all the time. It's the same thing, isn't it? If you love what you do, you start to lose the appreciation for it. And I think that's what you are getting at there. So that break away from it enables you to recharge and come back with that renewed vigour. And as you enjoy doing it, of course, recharging yourself in the process.

[00:49:33] So, if you think back to your life at the university, your life working in academia versus the life you have now, what's the difference?

[00:49:43] Natalie: Um, the sense that I'm finally living, I think. I'm in control of my own life to a lot more degree than I was. Before, I had sort of abdicated all my power for the illusion of safety and security. I realize now it is an illusion because a job could be lost at any moment, just under a restructuring program, you could be moved. I didn't want to put my future anybody else's hands.

[00:50:09] I wanted to be in control of my life. Okay. It's a lot more precarious, you could say, but it gives you that impetus to do something about it. I didn't like just sitting back doing nothing or doing very little in my job. And when I say do very little, something that wasn't that challenging, maybe. I didn't like the fact that how I felt was dictated by outside forces that I couldn't control. Now, yes, some things external to me do still affect me, but I can change how I react and, you know, I can move my focus. So now I just…, I feel alive. I feel I have grabbed my fears and my previous programming by the throat and say, "Okay, I know you're there. I'm not going to listen to as much." My inner voice is a lot stronger. I can trust myself. My inner voice and my inner soul have guided me very well so far. "Thank you, fears. Yes, you trying to protect me, but you can calm down now. I know I've got this." It's such an invigorating feeling. Now, I'm feeling all the feelings, you know, the excitement, the fear, the adrenaline, whereas before it was just so flat because I was so wedded to this idea of safety and security, and I had abandoned what I actually wanted. But, as I said, and it's going to come out and it came out with me with such force and it still does now and yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it.

[00:51:41] Carolyn: Wow, there's a journey, Natalie, all the way from the politics at A Level, through lecturing, through academic administration to what I'm going to say, felt or sounds more beige as a way of living through to something that is absolutely full of colour and vibrancy, creating memorial pieces for individuals to remember family members by and special pieces to celebrate with.

[00:52:07] Fascinating journey. Really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your experiences. And there's always a question I ask guests at the end every time, and the question is, “Is there a theme tune or a video or a quote or something that always keeps you going?”

[00:52:23] Natalie: So, over the years I've done a lot of development, as you know, and there's been so many quotations that I could give you. But the one that sticks with me the most is... now it's been quoted by several people, but there's this one guy, he's called Jim Fortin, and he's a transformational coach in America, and one of his quotes is, "you are where your attention is at." And I know this is similar to, where your attention flows, energy goes." I think something like that. And it's true. You fix your mind on something to such a degree, you will create that, and a lot of people will complain they don't have the life they want. Well, is your attention on that or is it on something, another distraction? When you want something, you've put your attention to it, you will create it. And my attention on my business now is unshakable, and I am creating it.

[00:53:17] Carolyn: Natalie, thank you very much. Long may you continue to experience the joy of being in charge of your own destiny, creating from that place of love and inspiration so that everybody can find their freedom and feel like the princesses perhaps that you talked about feeling like in your childhood. 

[00:53:35] Natalie, thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr.

[00:53:37] Natalie: Thank you.

[00:53:39] Carolyn: Often we make decisions to move in a certain direction because we've been given opportunities or nudged by others. We know deep down if what we're doing is right, we all have a voice, that quiet voice that knows what's good for us, the voice within which expresses disquiet. The trick is to listen to that voice, to trust it, and to take our courage in both hands so we can move in the direction of something new, which calls to us.

[00:54:05] As the saying goes, we can't be what we can't see until something in someone else's story inspires us to take the next step, to try something new, to adventure. If this episode has helped you to do just that, to change your story in some way, then please share it and the show notes that go with it on your social media channels so it can help others you know too, to escape from a job they hate and create a career they love.

[00:54:30] See you here next time when we'll be hearing another inspirational guest story that will help you to continue to change your story for the better. 

(c) Carolyn Parry Career Alchemy