Episode Five with Vicky Rushton: from school leaver and carer to design engineering and company director

Vicky Rushton found her voice advocating for her very sick second child, Oliver, at the age of 21, and now uses it to help others express themselves through design.

One of thirteen children, she grew up in Manchester and left school at 15 to help bring up her siblings. Pregnant at sixteen, she bought her first home with her partner and balanced bringing up her daughter with a career in retail sales. All was going well until life threw a spanner in her career plans and she had to spend the next four years caring for her second child who was born disabled. A third child followed along with a move to live near her father in North Wales and an architectural salvage business.

A chance conversation at the school gates took her back into education at Bangor University, where she found her love of design engineering and business. She completed her degree and won an entrepreneurship award from Santander.

A brief spell in primary teaching, followed by working in a charity, led to another chance encounter with Gerallt Evans, a blacksmith in Conwy, North Wales. Vicky is now Co-Director and equal shareholder of Gerallt Evans Metalcraft Limited. They are the creators of the world's first indoor crazy gold course at Zip World and other metal art and furniture installations, made from fusing ancient blacksmithing techniques with state of the art technology to create unique pieces that are not only beautiful but practical.

Listen to her remarkable story of how she created her own identity out of a chaotic start by following her energy and saying yes to chance opportunities, and hear more about  her passion and vision for design engineering.

Vicky can be contacted via:
Website: https://gemetalcraft.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Geralltevansmetalcraft/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/geralltevansmetalcraft/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoria-rushton-34ab8b111/ 


SHOW REFERENCES:
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People – Stephen R Covey

Flourish - a new understanding of happiness and wellbeing– Professor Martin Seligman
(you can read more about PERMA here.)

Thinking Fast and Slow – Daniel Kahneman

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Find out more about Carolyn's new book:

'Change Your Story: Escape from a job you hate and create a career you love - on purpose.'

Interested in hiring Carolyn as your coach?

Why not book a free 30-minute discovery call with Carolyn to discuss your needs and find out more about how she can help you to change your story?

https://bit.ly/Coffee-with-Carolyn

Transcript

 An interview with Vicky Rushton

Carolyn: We all have a story. Sometimes it's a story we choose and sometimes it's a story we fall into. That choice can either work for us or against us. Now, according to experts Gallup, on average, we spend 81,396 hours at work over the course of our lifetime. And in fact, the only thing we spend more time doing than working is sleeping.

[00:00:26] And yet, as Gallup's research shows, only around one in 10 people in the UK truly love the work they do. And that's the reason for this podcast to help the nine out of 10 who dread the thought of weekday mornings. I remember myself how that felt before I changed my own career story. So, if the thought of those weekday mornings fills you with dread, or that quiet voice keeps telling you there is something better waiting for you, why not join me for a conversation with an inspirational guest about how they've successfully changed their career?

[00:00:57] Full of ideas, strategies, and insights drawn from those real-life stories the Change Your Story podcast will help you to discover your why and what else really matters to you so that you too can create a working life you love. My name's Carolyn Parry, and I'm an award-winning career and life coach.

[00:01:16] And every fortnight I'll be joined by an inspirational guest for a conversation about their career journey, the highs, the lows, and the lessons they've learned, which I hope will inspire and entertain you as part of your journey to finding your "career why".

[00:01:31] Welcome to Change Your Story. 

[00:01:34] So it's my absolute pleasure to welcome Vicki Rushton today to this episode of Change Your Story. Now Vicki is a co-director of Gerallt Evans Metal Craft Limited.

[00:01:45] That might not mean much to you at the moment, but it certainly will by the end of this episode. Vicky's based near Conwy, aren't you? Vicky

[00:01:52] Vicky: Yes, we are. Yeah, in the middle of the countryside.

[00:01:56] Carolyn: A very warm welcome to you today. And I know that you are absolutely passionate about what Gerallt Evans does. So would you like to, just explain a little bit about what you do?

[00:02:05] Vicky: In a nutshell, we are artisan blacksmith slash metal fabricators. We do everything from designing with our clients and then go through the bespoke journey of creating things from all things metal.

[00:02:20] Having heard you speak before in an event in North Wales, you talked about this sense of helping people to own a piece of history that's made in Wales using this ancient craft. So, we'll explore that a little bit later on, I think when we get to there. But that's not where your life started, is it?

[00:02:32] Vicky: I grew up in Manchester 

[00:02:36] Carolyn: What was your family like?

[00:02:37] Large, unconventional, uh, I'm one of 13 children, the eldest daughter. so it was busy. 

[00:02:45] Carolyn: Wow.

[00:02:46] Vicky: Yeah. never a dull moment. Never a quiet moment either.

[00:02:50] Carolyn: And I suspect always a sense of responsibility being the eldest.

[00:02:55] Vicky: Absolutely. it's been entertaining at times but challenging [00:03:00] equally. a lot of the kind of caring for younger siblings fall under my remit for sure.

[00:03:04] Am I right in thinking that you started work really quite young?

[00:03:09] Vicky: Indeed I did. I started paper rounds at 11. we used to have a newspaper shop on the corner directly opposite our house, and I've got an older brother who was my absolute idol, loved him to bits, and he got a paper round. And when people were kind of letting the chap across the road down, Ben would pick up paper rounds and I started going with him. I used to horse rides. We had horses, which then naturally kind of led to all sorts of opportunities. and Ben used to go down and go and help down at the Pony Club and wherever Ben went, I tended to follow. We just started out just helping down at the Pony Club. The same chap that ran the pony club also had a company that did horse-drawn carriage weddings I would then go and help out with them usually on a Saturday and a Sunday, most weekends.

[00:03:58] Carolyn: so very much a strong work [00:04:00] ethic. So, can I just ask what your parents did for work? Did, did they work? Did they not work? Did they, what was their background?

[00:04:06] My parents got divorced when I was quite young. My dad worked in retail, in designer menswear and my Mum, when we were younger, she ran bars in Hale and then she met my stepdad and she then just had kids year on year, as I say, getting to 13 children's quite a lot of people to look after.

[00:04:29] Vicky: So, then she came out work and was, home stay home mom.

[00:04:33] Carolyn: I was going to say that's a bit of a full-time job for anybody who has got, just at least one knows how much work comes with one multiplying that by 13, and I've got no idea how that works and, credit to her and to all of you for doing so well and thriving. So, we've had this sense of growing up with a large number of people around, and you've talked about being busy doing things, whether it's the paper round or grooming for the wedding company or helping at horse shows, whatever that might be.

[00:05:00] Vicky: Yeah,

[00:05:01] Carolyn: How about education? How is that going?

[00:05:04] Vicky: So obviously being from such a large family, uh, my Mum sadly developed some mental health issues as I kind of approached my teens, I dropped out of school at 15 to help support her and help my siblings. I quite enjoyed school when I was there, you know, quite good grades. My main subjects were food, technology or design technology and PE so again, they were both quite active, quite hands-on, but just family life and home life became quite disrupted at a time when I needed to knuckle down. And I ended up coming out of school when I was 15 years old to care for the family.

[00:05:43] Carolyn: Wow. So, there you are, 15 year old, caring for the family, supporting everybody. That sense of elder girl responsibility right there.

[00:05:53] Vicky: Heck yeah!

[00:05:54] Carolyn:  Heck yeah. Yes, that was, that was a heck there wasn't it? So, what happened next?

[00:06:01] Vicky: So it was quite a challenging time, obviously being 15, not knowing your head from your elbow a lot of the time, hormones all over the show. I actually met my first boyfriend and ended up pregnant at 16, with my daughter Jess. I then moved away from the family home. 

[00:06:20] Home life became really quite difficult. and I moved away at 16, bought my first house with Jessie's Dad, had Jess. And when Jess was four months old, I found myself a job in retail at the Perfume Shop in the Trafford Centre. So, I was a homeowner at 16. Although not on the mortgage, I owned 50% at the house back then when you could get a hundred percent mortgage and bought my first house for £23 grand.

[00:06:45] Yeah, long are those days when my mortgage was £110. 

[00:06:50] Carolyn: Wow. Yes. 

[00:06:51] Vicky: Yeah, I had a lot of responsibility. I think I felt older at 16 than I do these days. I think all that early responsibility, being self-reliant, and I never thought too hard or fast about a great deal of things.

[00:07:05] I think I think a lot more now than I did then but thought at 16 I could take on the world. 

[00:07:09] Carolyn: There is something about being fearless when you are younger isn't there, and when you get a bit older and the energy's not quite as vibrant, occasionally you have to go, how am I going to spend that energy today? And is that something I want to pursue or is that something somebody else could pursue?

[00:07:24] And it's a useful insight there. It struck me listening to you there, you took an awful lot on a homeowner at 16 with a mortgage and a little one, and presumably a period of some stability for a while there, having made that change.

[00:07:44] Vicky: I jest all the time that it was so much easier. I went from looking after 11 siblings to one child and I went from caring for a six bedroomed house to a two-bedroom house. It was dream. I cut my responsibility in [00:08:00] six.

[00:08:02] Carolyn: I was going to say, what did you do with all the free time you had?

[00:08:07] Vicky: Yeah, you know, it was quite interesting and like I say, I make like humour of it, but when I do look back on it, it was exactly that. I did actually rid myself of a lot of responsibility and was able to kind of focus on myself at that time. And to do that at such a young age, I think has made me the stronger individual that I am today. For sure. You know, most people kind of might look on my childhood and think, oh, what a shame, poor her, but it has made me extremely resilient. I don't look back and resent any of that anymore. I see it as a blessing. and it has really shaped me in the way that I think today.

[00:08:44] Carolyn: I think that's very wise and sometimes we go through something really difficult and it's not until we look back and we start to ask: Where's the gift in this experience? What can I take from something that was really challenging and turn it into something that actually is a blessing if I look at it that way?

[00:09:02] And clearly you did, and your resilience shines through that. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be looking after 12 other kids, aged 15. and there you are, you have your own at 16. You go through all of the disruption of leaving home which I know was somewhat acrimonious, and then you go, “I'm responsible for me. I've got a house; I've got a roof over my child's head. I've got a job. I'm managing it all well”. And that carried on for a while, then didn't it?.

[00:09:32] Vicky: It did. Yeah. the relationship with Jesse's dad dissolved. Again, quite challenging. It's always interesting and as you get a little bit older and you reflect a little bit more, that relationship I suppose was an escapism from the situation that I was in at home. But I was allowing behaviours that kind of I didn't want in the first place of the thing.

[00:09:51] and the thing I was trying to escape, I jumped straight into, like, was it out of the pan straight into the fire type of scenario. And then I thought, right, okay. I've made all of these really adult decisions at a young age. And I'd managed to kind of get away from that situation. Then it was just me and Jess. I then met my next partner and he was completely different and really chilled. And I was like, ah, I'm getting some grips with this life thing. Look at me being all courageous and leading my own way. 

[00:10:20] By the age of 20. I had it mastered. or so I thought!

[00:10:24] And then life served me something I could never have imagined. I was pregnant with my second child, Oliver, and that pregnancy threw my world into an absolute spin. We found out there were complications and that Oliver was going to be disabled in some way. They offered me an amniocentesis so that I could kind of wrap my head around it. To be honest, I was so disassociated from it. And I think that was something that I learned from a young age, It was like, right, okay, I'm pregnant with this child that they're now telling me is either going to die at birth or will have these complications that's going to completely change the course of my life. Something I frequently say today is everything in life is a choice. I don't have to go to work, I don't have to brush my teeth, I don't have to brush my hair, and everything's an answer of yes or no.

[00:11:14] Do I want to do that? Yes. Do I want do that? No. So, my pregnancy from about 20 weeks with Oliver, they said that it could either be the dwarfism or it could have been another condition where he wouldn't survive much past birth. And at 20 weeks pregnant, that's a spin that my head, my emotions just couldn't deal with.

[00:11:33] And I just rolled with the pregnancy. At 30 weeks, they did a scan check on him, and they were leaning more towards it being dwarfism, but they said it's looking like he's got full cleft lip and pallet. He'll need full face reconstruction and that, oh, it was just too much for me to even bear.

[00:11:53] So I kind of, I'd prepared myself again in a reflection from my childhood. It was like, right, okay, how am I going to look after this child? I'll just deal with it. It'll be there and I'll do this. But it became an it rather than a him, which was now, reflecting on it, was quite sad. but I developed these coping strategies from such a challenging childhood.

[00:12:15] And Oliver was born, he didn't have a deformed face, however, he does have dwarfism. And he was teeny tiny really tiny.

[00:12:24] Carolyn: Oh.

[00:12:24] Vicky: But during my pregnancy I struggled to bond with him, which was interesting because a couple of hours after he was born, he was taken to special care and he had breathing difficulties, and coming to terms with that, it felt like a job. Oliver became a job to me for a long time thereafter. He came home after three weeks and in SCBU (Special Care Baby Unit), I think as a standard practice, they give you training resuscitation. Never ever did I think I would need to use this.

[00:12:57] Did my training, took him home. I was like, right. Okay. And within a couple of hours he stopped breathing. So I did breath and massage, and he came back and that was fine. And within the coming weeks, this was happening 20 to 30 times a day. And I would taken him back to the hospital, took him to the doctors, and one day I couldn't revive him and rang an ambulance, got to the hospital. And the doctor said, how long has this been going on? So I said, for about three weeks. And that then led us to being in hospital then for just short of a year, in which time Oliver had a tracheostomy, he was nasal gastric fed. Uh, we had a period where he got so ill, he had full organ failure, and at the time I was just going through the motions. It was just a case of, okay, what's next? Okay, what's next? And I became really practical in my mind. The day that Oliver had full organ failure, I'd been at the hospital with him solidly for two weeks. And I needed to go and see Jess because Jess has been neglected. And I came back and as I came in, he flat lined. And this is a really pivotal moment. and the reason that I'm telling this story, What had happened was that each team that was supposed to be caring for him, so we had Ear Nose and Throat (ENT), respiratory and General Medical, and none of them were picking him up.

[00:14:19] Vicky: They were thinking it was somebody else's responsibility and he ended up in intensive care for 10 weeks.

[00:14:27] And the day that that happened, I didn't get angry, but I wanted answers and I pulled together this massive multi-professional meeting. I wanted everybody there. the only question I had at that time was “if he had have died, would you say to me?” And it was the only question I asked. I just put it on the table and the room was silent. And I remember quivering and shaking being 21. Like my head even coming to terms to the fact that he was a dwarf, that he had all of these challenges that I was having to give him resuscitation 20 to 30 times a day and kind of feeling unheard. And for the first time, as drastic as that was, I felt heard. I felt seen for the first time in life and realizing that these people in this room are people that I would hold in such a high regard. You know, they were so highly educated, they're meant to know their job. We looked to them save people where they can.

[00:15:30] And yet I felt in that instance that I'd been failed, that my son had been failed, and that I was his only voice. And for the first time I felt I had a voice and that was the only question I put to them. And thereafter, it was really bizarre that my confidence just - just grew. I felt like I could talk to anybody, and I became powerful for him, so I became his advocate, but bizarrely, even though he was a little person, and he couldn't talk and he was fighting for his life in that moment, he gave me so much.

[00:16:00] And when I reflect on that, I would say that's a massive, pivotal moment for me to realize that these other people, they're just people. Yes, they're highly educated in their field, but yet, unless we kind of come together and we communicate effectively, nothing really happens and nothing really changes.

[00:16:15] So, yeah!

[00:16:19] Carolyn: That's an incredibly powerful story. My son eight weeks old, was rushed in with suspected meningitis and he was in overnight, and that trashed my world, I can't imagine how you coped with a year's worth and all the rest of it. And that moment when you went, I'm not having this anymore, you stood in your power,

[00:16:39] Vicky: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:41] Carolyn: That gave you a massive boost, didn't it? And I think you've always kept that with you ever since. That's never been lost, has it?

[00:16:48] Vicky: Absolutely not. It was game changing. It was life changing for me personally.

[00:16:54] Carolyn: And it even took you onto TV, didn't it?

[00:16:58] Vicky: Yes, it did. Olly became like an absolute treasure. So once Oliver was discharged from hospital, we went home and he had a tracheostomy until he was three and a half. He was nasal gastric fed. The amount of training that I ended up taking on - even just management of oxygen, management of a tracheostomy, management of a nasal gastric tube. We had sats monitors, we had oxygen concentrators. There was so much planning. Oliver at the time, was monitored for every inch of his body We had 22 consultants, but Olly couldn't talk because of his tracheostomy so started signing. I think he was a marvel to many people because he was so small, but then so courageous, and he just had this personality.

[00:17:45] And anywhere we went, he'd have crowds of people, either in fits of laughter and for a little chap that couldn't talk and could only sign, or people would be in bits, but they absolutely adored him everywhere we went. We had carers that would come in six hours a week so I could go and get food shopping, because when we were at home, we could only go out for four hours a day because he was on humidified oxygen. and when we'd go out, he'd go on dry oxygen. So, we were housebound for nearly four years, hospital or homebound. But the team around us, so the team in hospital and the team at hospice and the community nursing team, were absolutely in awe of him and loved him. We were approached by ITV, once the new super hospital in Manchester had been built and they said “can we film your journey?” I said, “of course. Yeah”.

[00:18:33] Carolyn: Good for you. You don't get big diamonds and he sounds like a very, very special diamond that shines everywhere. There is a change, isn't there though, because I know that there's a moment when the tracheostomy is removed. What was that like and how did that affect life?

[00:18:50] Vicky: Oh, it was bizarre. Do you know what's interesting though? Because again, with TV you only get snippets. So that documentary, I say about being worried and about being scared about going backwards. And what was interesting was after that I'd been filmed, we went home and Olly started stopping breathing again, and I couldn't, oh, I can't put into words, you know, and people saw that and they were like, yeah, triumph, Olly's going home and it's all absolutely fine. And yeah, it descended into chaos at the next two weeks. But then he went in for another operation, then he was fine. And teaching him to talk, hearing his voice, I remember, it was a couple of months after he had his trache out and he was kind of on this journey of learning to talk and I remember there was a day when, nothing particularly happened, but I'm getting up in the morning giving him his breakfast. And he said something that he hadn't said before, I hadn't heard before. I remember thinking, oh, I can be your Mum. And it was like really emotional for me because I'd been his carer because I was scared to get close to him. I was, although I did love him and still do love him, it was really hard, and again, that's more understanding myself. That's more self-awareness of a coping strategy that's kept me safe and sane. Oh, I say sane by my own judgment. 

[00:20:20] Carolyn: I think you are remarkably resilient and, and have done incredibly well to keep going, and come through all of this and be as open and direct as you are about it as well. I think it's really helpful that you've done this because somebody listening will go, “that's helped me too”.

[00:20:36] Carolyn: And so sharing that story really does help people move forward, doesn't it? So we've now got a situation where Oliver's well,

[00:20:45] Vicky: Yes.

[00:20:46] Carolyn: in terms of no interventions, presumably

[00:20:50] Vicky: Yep.

[00:20:50] Carolyn: Four years out of the house now, then you moved, didn't you? You had another change.

[00:20:57] Everything in life is a chapter and it was very much a new chapter. Olly had had his trache out and my Dad lived in North Wales, and I found that whenever we came to visit my Dad, that Oliver's breathing was far better, and I think what being in hospital and housebound and everything that we'd gone through, what life had taught me was that nothing's fixed, nothing's permanent, it doesn't matter where you are. As Olly was four, and obviously looking to go to school and class sizes in Manchester and the upbringing that I'd had, and then looking at how the quality of his life was better in terms of his breathing when we were in Wales, I just had this thought one day. I was like, you know what, why don't we just move there? The kids could have a slower or a more outdoorsy type life, a slower pace of life, off that crazy treadmill. Obviously, I'd come out of work to be his carer. So finances weren't great. It was cheaper to live here. Yet I could find this balance of giving my children a better quality of life whilst not having a great deal myself in terms of financial support or backing, and what would make me rich would be to give them a balanced life. And it was just, you know what? Let's sell up here. Let's rent there. the worst that can happen? I've got to move back. It's not the end of the world. Let's give it a whirl and it'll be an adventure. So, I sold it to the kids as an adventure. We're going move there. We're going to give it a go and if we love it, we'll stay. And if we don't, we’ll move back!

[00:22:31] Carolyn: What a fantastic attitude and I was just thinking, listening to you there, that's been a tremendous (a) stress on you and growth opportunity, but (b), interruption to your own career. Because during all of that time there was no working was there, just, “sorry, I can't work. I've got to resuscitate my son.” That's just not going to work. Is it?

[00:22:55] I worked at the Perfume Shop at the time I'd made it to senior sales and I was working really hard on all of their courses and training, And I felt as if I was doing really well. And I remember when Oliver was in hospital and they'd just come out of intensive care. And at the time I was obviously on maternity. He was like seven months old. And my manager at the time was saying, "Vic, it doesn't look like you're going be able to come back".

[00:23:18] Vicky: I was like, "no, no. Keep my job there, because when he comes out of hospital, I'll work part-time." She was like, "Vic, you're not being very realistic." "I'm, I am, I am. I need something for myself. This is really tiring. I'm knackered. But you go to work, and you chat with your friends and it's like a nice way to offload and you don't realize you're doing it."

[00:23:34] And she said, "It's not going to work, Vic". And I remember the day that I had to resign. I don't get upset. I don't get emotional. I remember Oliver going into intensive care? And I didn't cry and everybody around me was crying, and I was like, am I just a void of emotion? But it was a coping strategy, but the day I had to resign from work...

[00:23:55] It is interesting. There was always a stigma around my mum. There was a lot of things that people would say, me being from a large family and my mum not working. I didn't want that stereotype. One from being a young mom, you know? And it was a case of, oh, has she had kids so that she can get a free house, I mean, nothing's free.

[00:24:11] But that's..., I was so scared of the stigma. We were stigmatized as a large family. And then stigmatized for being a 16-year-old mom. And then I thought, oh, I can't be jobless as well. Absolutely not. You know, there was rocks and boulders that are only going to get bigger are heading my way, So, that was a really emotional day for me.

[00:24:30] But it had to happen because my son, my children needed me at that time, and I did have to make that sacrifice where it was their needs over mine. 

[00:24:40] Carolyn: Did that affect your sense of identity, your sense of self having to give up work?

[00:24:45] Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I've got three children, so I had Faye when I was 23, so when Oliver was still oxygen dependent and had a tracheostomy and everything else going on, I found I got pregnant, not planned, and that was really hard. And yeah, I struggled with not going to work. Yeah. I, I enjoyed making friends, I enjoyed talking to people, and you don't realize how cathartic it is, and you don't, you know, like when, when life is challenging, you go to work and you, you're just having a general conversation. You actually offload a lot of your internal stress and you go home and you feel as if you've achieved and you've been a part of a team.

[00:25:27] And when the team succeed, you succeed. Whereas all of a sudden, I was really on my own. My partner at the time didn't cope very well with the situation with Oliver. I didn't have family to lean on. The relationship with my mum had broken down. I didn't speak to my siblings. My dad lived in Wales. I was living in Manchester, and the voice in my head sometimes was so strong and I just wanted to be like everybody else up in the morning and go to work. I'd worked from such a young age, it gave me independence, you know, kind of even just the financial side of it, the connection with people. It was a really isolating time with Olly because people didn't know what to say. They didn't know what to do, so they avoided me. Um, yeah, I definitely did lose my identity by not working for sure.

[00:26:20] Carolyn: And having to lose that sense of belonging that work gives you as well. If you look at the theory from Professor Martin Seligman, who's the father of the positive psychology movement, the former chair of the American Psychological Association, his theory PERMA, says you need some positive emotion.

[00:26:37] You need to have that sense of experience and flow, enjoyment in what you're doing, relationships, work that you connect with, so you have a sense of tribe, a sense of meaning about what you are doing, that it has something purposeful around it and that ability to achieve. So I understand why that was such a big blow to you, but you being you, it wasn't going to stay a blow for long, was it? Once you had Olly fit and well, off to Wales, how was that shift from the bustling city to the clean air and peace of rural North Welsh Living. How was that experience?

[00:27:15] Vicky: A culture shock. Yes, Oh, it really was. I'm going to share with you a story that I've said many, many a time. I don't know whether this is everybody else's experience of going from a bustling city, but they talk about going on the tube in London, if you smile at somebody, they think you're odd. I had a moment of that. I remember going to go and do, as we would call it, a big shop. You know, you move into a house, you've got absolutely nothing, you're going to do a big shop. And the Tesco was the size of a Co-op in Manchester, and I was like, wow, everything's so small. Everything's kind of about efficiency. So you'd go to Tesco's and you'd just bag your shopping, not really talk to the cashier. And this chap that was working on the till turned to me and He goes, "oh, I don't like it when there's a big queue and everybody stares at you". And I looked behind me assuming he was talking to somebody else, I said, "sorry, you talking to me? He said, yeah. And I was like, oh right. I said, oh, it's alright, just chat to me. It's fine". But that was really interesting because I was like, wow. Right. Okay, so people do talk and take time and then the neighbours had come out and say hi. Whereas I was very much, I'd leave my house, I'd kind of quick, "hi, how are you?", but there was never kind of any neighbourly interactions.

[00:28:26] And it's like everybody stops. They have a chat. You'd go in a shop, they'd finish the conversation before they go, "excuse me, I've got another customer". They'd just carry on the conversation. It's like, wow. this is quite different. It's a totally slower pace of life. not the people in the city aren't friendly, it's just everybody kind of gets on with their own thing. whereas it's far more community based here. So, everybody does want to get to know you because you're part of their community. I think that's the reason I've stayed.

[00:28:57] Carolyn: Isn't that lovely? So I'm half an hour south of Aberystywth I often see people parked one, one way, one the other, having a conversation in the middle of the road and you sit there politely waiting for four or five minutes while they finish it. And you wouldn't get that in a city, there'd be a riot. 

[00:29:13] And I just wonder as a nation whether we have a different outlook on life actually than when you go back to England. Do you notice that at all?

[00:29:23] Vicky: I don't go back to England all that much these days. Actually, I popped to the Trafford Centre not that long ago, and I felt like the people around here, Gerallt being one of them. I went back the other day and felt like Gerallt, - “it's too busy, it's hectic, it's manic. Get me back to Wales!” 

[00:29:40] Carolyn: There is a peace and tranquillity round here. You don't have the same assault on your ears. I went to Birmingham recently and was just was aware of how much my senses were being assaulted by constant movement and noise everywhere.

[00:29:58] It's just a very different vibe, isn't it? How did the children adapt and how did you cope with, obviously now not being a full-time carer, but being back to that point of being, can I use the word just Mum? Because I think that's probably a reflection of how it felt in a way.

[00:30:13] Carolyn: How did you cope with all that? And then you start to pick up the strands of work again.

[00:30:19] So moving was all really exciting. As I say, I'd kind of parcelled it in my own mind that it was an adventure and it's not fixed. “We don't have to do it, it's fine, and I think that enabled us to kind of ease into it.” The challenges that I faced when we moved here, Oliver, as I mentioned, had 22 consultants and I needed to move his care where possible slightly closer to this new home, and then keep some in Manchester. But as Oliver was getting stronger and he was getting better, I was able to kind of put a few on like open door access.

[00:30:51] For Jess when we moved here, she will have been nine or 10 and picking up Welsh as a language.

[00:31:01] Vicky: So she was going to a school and then all of a sudden kind of being taught Welsh in this slower pace of life. Jess was extremely resilient because obviously she had to adapt to Oliver coming along and then Faye coming along and all those changes that were happening. She was fantastic. She was really, really understanding, super resilient. Moving Oliver and him starting school. At the time he didn't talk and when he started school because of the stopping breathing, he needed a nurse support. So, we needed to put all of that in place. and then Faye had gone into nursery, so it was like perfect timing in terms of parenting, for the first time. When we moved here, Faye going to school. Oliver was in school. The timing, as I say, was perfect. We were here six weeks and then the children went to school. So straight away I gained my life back in a way that I'd never had before.

[00:31:53] So if I was just a Mum, my kids were in school. So all of a sudden I had this new found freedom and I got chatting to a Mum at school who became a really good friend, Becky. She asked me what I was doing and said how cute Olly was. And we kind of went down memory lane for five minutes and I said, "oh, so what do you do?"

[00:32:13] So she said, "oh, I'm in college at the moment." She said, "I'm doing an Access course." I said, "oh, what? What are your plans? What's the big…, what's the dream?" She said that she wants to go study psychology. I didn't think too much about it. And then obviously saw Becky on the playground in the morning and saw her in an evening and naturally curious, I was like, "What is it you're studying? So what is it that you do? How hard is it?" She was like, "Vic, go on. Go and give it a go it's free to do the course." And I was like, "free? Free education. I've got no education dropped out of school at 15. I wouldn't even know where to start." And then this conversation just buzzing around my mind. It wouldn't leave me alone.

[00:32:52] And I kind of said, you know, this is going to fit really well. The job opportunities in the place I chosen to move. I, I could have reached out and got a job in Tesco's, but having no formal education in anything, I would've gone back into retail hopefully. but then having to manage that if Oliver became ill at any point, and   letting people down.

[00:33:11] I was nervous to go to work, how am I going to negotiate, "oh, my son's ill and uh, might be in hospital for two or three weeks", It's unreliable for me as an employee to an employer. And I just thought, you know what? Maybe this is the right avenue. I'll just go and have a look. So, I'll booked myself in to go and chat with lecturer.

[00:33:30] And she was unbelievably enthusiastic and passionate and warm and just this energy and I thought, I think this is what I need to be around. So, I thought I can tie that in with the kids. It's school hours and kind of see how this goes. So I just signed up, again, not, not thinking too hard or fast about it.

[00:33:49] I jumped on the course and then they were like, you can get your GCSEs as well. if you do them alongside this, it's not going to cost you anything else. But if you just come, a night, a week or whatever, and I had no idea what I wanted to do, I just wanted to be a part of something and start to find value in myself.

[00:34:06] How am I going to package myself? I haven't got anything to offer. I've got no education. I'm just a Mum. And I found those words leaving my mouth quite often and, and not seeing my own value. I couldn't see what other people could see. A lot of people would say, wow, how amazing. You've done all these things with Oliver.

[00:34:21] You've train yourself to be a nurse and you've done this and you've done this. But yet for me, I didn't feel I was achieving anything. I was just Mum.

[00:34:30] Carolyn: You were doing what you had to do. You said, “oh, I just thought I'd give it a go, this education thing. I'll give it a go”. Was there any bit of you that went, this feels right?

[00:34:41] I think it was the energy from Jane to be honest, because I remember using that line, " what have I got to offer? I'm just a Mum.” She went, “you are absolutely not.”

[00:34:53] Carolyn: So, it's about identity again and belonging as well, is, it's those two things again. It's valuing myself. Somebody's seen something in me that I can't see in myself at the moment, probably because you've been so far with your head down every medical procedure going, by the way, most people don't go on TV and do TV programs about their critically sick child. Okay? So if I don't say that I'm failing you badly today, because you have to look back at what you have achieved and all the things you've gained from what you've done. And that's really important. So, you find yourself feeling this sense of connection to Jane, an interest and an opportunity, a sense to re regroup and start to develop your identity again.

[00:35:36] What happened after the Access to HE and doing those GCSEs?

[00:35:42] I was like, I've made this sacrifice and, and I'm a moment, I've got a sense of responsibility. I need something that's going to offer me as much job opportunity as possible. So then they were helping us look on UCAS.

[00:35:52] I didn't really know and I remember seeing a course that said design and technology teaching at Bangor University and I thought, “oh, teaching that'd fit around the kids. And I used to love design technology and I absolutely love baking, Oh, all these things are all ironing. Yeah, go on, we'll give it a go.” I applied and it was really interesting. I had an interview at the university and I remember reading the letter or the invitation to go along and it said, bring along your portfolio, and this was on the morning that I'd read this letter, a bit lastminute.com and I remember ringing in and saying to the woman, “hi, I'm I'm 26, I haven't got a portfolio.” I said, “I've gone back to do an Access course.” I said, “but your course just really intrigued to me. So I thought, oh great, I'll apply for it, but I don't have a portfolio.” She went, "Okay, let me go and speak to the lecturers." She come back, she went, it's fine just turn up. And there were all these young students with their parents, and I just turned up with mobile phone and car keys, and I was like, oh. And I had that sense of, oh no, I'm in the wrong place, I went, oh. And for the first time in my life, I felt old. I'd always felt too young to have done everything that I'd done. And I was like, oh, the identity crisis started all over again. I was like, oh, no,

[00:37:05] Carolyn: You reminded me of one of my favourite films, which is Educating Rita when she's standing there looking at all of them going, "no, no imposter syndrome. I don't belong here. What am I doing?" I think you went through that same moment by the sounds of things, didn't you?

[00:37:25] Vicky: I did, and it didn't leave me at any time that I was at University. It really didn't.

[00:37:32] Carolyn: What, the age bit or imposter syndrome? 

[00:37:34] Vicky: Oh, down to the conversations about your first mobile phone, you know, and I'd had a Nokia 5110 and thought it was really cool and you could change the battery and the aerial and the front. The kids in uni, and I always used to call them the kids…

[00:37:47] …and I remember kind of telling them about my phone, mobile phone, and they were like, “it wasn't an iPhone”. I was like, “oh God, I'm so old.”

[00:37:58] Carolyn: Brilliant. So, you find yourself being this older person with this drive to go down the sort of design technology route. What happened?

[00:38:09] Vicky: So, I began university and the course was made up of product design to engineering with qualified teacher status. So, you studied alongside the product designers, but then you branched off. So, you had to learn product design and then learn how to teach product design My logic in doing so was it would give me the most amount of employability at the end of the course, and I did the first semester and was having a really, really bad identity crisis with my age, my anxiety, I really did start to struggle.

[00:38:45] So I deferred for the rest of that year deciding “am I doing the right thing? Why does it feel so off?” And focused on being a mum, finding myself. I did a lot of soul searching. I'm really beginning to understand myself. Something I'd never, ever done before. You know, it was a lot. I tend to kind of run headlong into things and just say yes, and then just deal with it. There's a saying isn't there, well, for entrepreneurship where, you know, you jump off the cliff and build a plane on the way down, and that's kind of bizarrely the way that my coping strategy is. However, I felt really out of my depth and really under prepared. I was learning how to learn, which to some might sound bizarre.

[00:39:31] I think I was struggling with that more than anything else. It felt like everybody else knew what they were doing, and yet when they were talking to me, my answers to their answers were, like, polar ends apart. Our thought process was like, miles off, and I just didn't feel like I fit. So, I deferred and then was trying to understand why do I feel like I don't fit? What do I have to offer? What am I bringing? And I did start to reflect and thought, “you know what, actually, Vic, stop. Stop this. Stop this nonsense. you've got loads to offer. And you know what? Your way of thinking might not be the same as theirs, but that might be your key. That might be your golden nugget. You don't have to be like them.” So I went back the following September and committed to the teaching side of the course, but I had a gut feeling when I went back that actually it wasn't for me - that my passion was design. It was to just remain curious, whereas the teaching was really structured and I don't do so well with structure being that my life had been unstructured that I was, yeah, I think it was throwing me into this space that just felt too restrictive. It was so foreign. I committed for the first year to teaching. I went and did a placement and knew after two weeks that it wasn't for me, And again, kind of taking that time to defer, to really start to listen to myself. I was like, “no. Do you know what, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to follow my passion. I'm going to reduce my employability and just follow design, but I'm going to give it my everything.”

[00:41:11] So rather than this scatter gun approach become really focused at the thing that I really do love, 

[00:41:15] Carolyn: What was it about design that captured you?

[00:41:22] Oh, that's a great question. When I was younger, I was always passionate about decorating the house. I used to mither my mum, can I decorate the house? And, I remember decorating my own bedroom when I was about nine or 10, and I just loved how things could go together.

[00:41:39] Vicky: And there was no rule for that. You get a bit of this and you get a bit of that and you smash it together and you stand back and you have a look. And it's either an absolute amazing marvel or a car crash on a wall. There is no rule until you hit a sweet spot. And then that is the rule, 

[00:41:58] Carolyn: You've talked about freedom. You've talked about not wanting to be restricted and rules. You've talked about this childhood experience of decorating your bedroom.

[00:42:09] Vicky: Yeah.

[00:42:09] Carolyn: What does design mean to you? 

[00:42:13] Vicky: Freedom of expression, I'd say.

[00:42:16] Is that why you love it so much?

[00:42:19] Vicky: Probably. And it's not just about me. Obviously, I design for the people and understanding them how they might not understand themselves. I'd quite like for somebody to understand me, like I don't understand me, because people see things in me that I don't see. And design enables me to do the same for them.

[00:42:41] Carolyn: Interesting. So, an external expression of somebody through design.

[00:42:45] Vicky: Yeah, definitely!

[00:42:46] Carolyn: That connects up with teaching though, doesn't it? Because as a teacher you are drawing out what's inside someone.

[00:42:54] Vicky: Teaching does still align with me, just not in the education system the way that it is at the moment. I went into a school for 10 weeks and the way some of the teachers were thinking and the way that they were behaving, it was just like kind of hitting these goals, hitting these objectives. I felt as if we'd lost sight, like education is merely the transfer of knowledge. And it doesn't matter how that happens, as long as it happens safely, but it's about inspiring people to find their passion. And I was finding that that wasn't happening.

[00:43:32] Carolyn: The biggest thing with inspiring somebody is helping them find their why. If they can find their why, they can make their way through life because it all makes sense. If you can't find a why, you're going through the process and the motions of doing something, which sounds a little bit like what was happening with you with teaching because it didn't light you up from the inside. But you did go on and get an award from Santander, didn't you? 

[00:43:50] I was always fascinated by business because another large part of the course is there's no point in design and a product that can't be sold otherwise, It's just a hobby. And there was an awful lot of business theory in the course. So, I then as always bit off a whole chunk. I didn't go for like one part of a KitKat. I went for the whole box of KitKat Chunkies. I was like, right, I want a business plan. We're going to have apps, we're going to have people working over there, and did make it quite big. And it was basically how do you stop beautifully crafted old furniture, go into landfill, and how do you make modern people see the beauty of the craftsmanship of those products? And I just fell in love with it as a project. I loved, you know, the sustainability side of it, the reducing fast fashion, the whole thing. And that led to me graduating. I had to drop some modules to try and fit it in with being a Mum and all the rest. I was more than happy with my 2 (i). To be fair, I would've been happy to come out with a third. I felt as if I got so much value from that course. It wasn't about the grade and at my graduation ceremony, I was presented with an award for entrepreneurship by Santander and a £1000 to do with it what I wish, whether it's to start my business or just to say well done.

[00:45:17] So huge achievement for me when it first, kind of halfway through year three, I was like, no, not going to survive this and I did.

[00:45:28] Carolyn: Well, you came in through an Access course and had to go and do GCSE Maths and, and English. So, it was a massive achievement I mean, you almost threw away one of your magic moments!

[00:45:38] And I just wonder because you're so used to taking on challenge that it's about getting there. It's not about celebrating it. Is that right?

[00:45:47] Absolutely. Yeah. it's about enjoying the journey, isn't it? It is all about the journey. Yeah. Most definitely.

[00:45:55] Vicky: I was amazed by what I'd learned. You know, I'd be having a conversation with somebody and I'd be referencing a book.

[00:46:00] And for me, leaving school at 15 with very, very, very basic education and not coming from a house of academics or when I was kind of reciting textbooks and things that I was learning, sometimes I'd catch myself and yeah, starting to be proud of myself in those little instances, that was a win for me. I didn't need the accolade at the end, to be honest. I think it was about two weeks before I was finishing, I said I wasn't going to go to my graduation ceremony. I said, I've got from it what I need.

[00:46:38] Carolyn: So, there you are not going to go to graduation, but probably fairly glad you did, given that you got this award from Santander to do with what you would. Did you actually start that furniture recycling business?

[00:46:46] I didn't. I ended up leaving my husband. I just realized that we'd grown apart and that was the challenging part for me in, year three. I got halfway through year three and I was like, “oh gosh, it all got a bit tough”. I really found myself in doing that course, and, yeah, deciding to leave my husband halfway through, doing a degree. Another thing I actually haven't touched on at the start of year two, well actually when I deferred, I started a antiques and reclamation salvage business.

[00:47:18] Just a little small thing. My husband at the time, got into restoring paraffin stoves and would often go off and go and purchase bits and pieces. And I was like, "you know, sometimes you come back and it's not fruitful", and he was like, "oh, well if you're so good at it, why don't you have go?" So I did. I went with £200, and I bought some stock, and then I popped it on eBay and on a few other platforms, and the first item I bought was £40, and I sold it for £250. And then it just blew up from there. And the next thing, I had a website, I had this and I had that. So, I had my own business, three kids a degree, a husband that wasn't wasn't amazingly supportive. So yes, I was running that as well at the same time.

[00:48:03] Carolyn: Not somebody who sits down and lets the grass go your feet. That's for sure. You've got this new curve ball and got divorced. What happened next?

[00:48:13] Vicky: Oh, crisis. So I remember a conversation with my lecturer and I'm still really good friends with him today and I often look for him for like little nuggets of wisdom and advice, my lecturer, Aled, and I think it was the last day I was in university before graduation, so it was like, right, okay, you've handed your dissertation in, you've done all those bits and pieces, and it was really like marking the end of an era.

[00:48:39] I was like, wow, I can't believe I've actually survived it, and he said, "oh, now you just need to wait for the crash." He didn't mean it in a negative context. And he said, " people leave here and it's as if a rug's been pulled from them.

[00:48:52] And I was like, "no, not me. You joking me. I'll find someone to throw myself headlong into". And it did, it happened. I had a really big wobble, anxiety kicked in, depression. I was like, have I made rash decisions? Have I chosen to separate and throw my entire personal life into chaos thinking I can do it all? I'm finding myself in that awful territory again where I'm a young single Mum of three. Me and my own Mum don't speak. And she had several marriages, and I was like, oh, no! It's like history repeating itself. For about two months, I really was struggling mentally and emotionally. It's like I'd gone from the high of the high, you know, winning this award, finishing this degree. I'd reached the peak and then I had no idea how earth to get down. I couldn't see a path, just got lost. and I actually went back to that crisis of what do I have to offer?

[00:49:48] All right. Okay, great. You've got this piece of paper that says that you can do design, but you're not a designer. It says you are an engineer, but you're not really an engineer. You've got no experience in it. It's like, oh, I did a couple of modules at uni and this was like the self-talk and it became really negative and, in that negative self-talk,

[00:50:06] I was like, you didn't even give teaching a good crack. You didn't really try it, you just thought it didn't align with you at that time. And I thought, right, okay, do you know what? Let's not sit here and mope. And I just decided that I was going to ring an agency for teaching, and I thought, you know, go and give it a crack. Go and spend some time in there, but without the pressure of university, just go in and be in a classroom. See if, you've still got the power to manage a classroom. So, I did that for about six months. And I was at high schools, I was at primary schools, and it was nice and without the pressure. And it was definitely something that I could see I had a natural ability to do, but it still didn't light me up inside. It wasn't self-led. It was still structured. My passion had become about business. I reflect back on what I decided to design as my final year product versus what everybody else had and the fact that I'd started to run my own business, I ended up giving my business to my husband. And yeah, it became quite chaotic. I ended up moving out the house, sold everything I owned. I just needed a fresh start.

[00:51:12] I needed to cut it all off. And that's what I did. And started to put my energy and my focus back into my passion. And I started to lead by my gut, not my head, not even my heart. I was just like, does this feel right? Yes, right. Do that. And in doing that, I was able to let go mentally. The depression went away, the anxiety went away. And it was if I like this today, I'm going to do this today. And if my feelings change tomorrow, there'll be something else. I've got value to add to wherever it is that I go, and I was getting great feedback from the teaching, but it just wasn't for me 

[00:51:49] Carolyn: You've talked about spontaneity, and you've talked about being led by your gut. What does that feel like?

[00:52:00] Vicky: What does it feel like? 

[00:52:03] Carolyn: Do you get a sense of physical reaction when you're going? That's the right thing for me to do.

[00:52:08] Vicky: Yeah. It's an, it's an urge. Yeah. I feel an uncomfortableness in myself, when I'm doing something that doesn't align with me. And when I move towards the thing that is aligning with me, all that tension disappears, and everything comes natural. I feel comfortable. The people around me, their energy towards me is different. It's warm, it's creative, it's vibrant, it's colourful, it charges me up, even just thinking about it now, I feel charged when I gravitate towards the things that serve me. I've never really understood energy. I didn't kind of know that I was allowed to go and follow my gut. But this sense of feeling and really tapping into it, it's exactly that.

[00:52:56] It's quite freeing. Yeah. And, and it happens naturally and it stops my mind getting fuzzy because my gut's telling me to go over there and do it. And by not being fixed it almost protects me in a way from getting too bogged down with making too many mental decisions.

[00:53:12] Carolyn: This is this unconscious mind that we have this sixth sense that says this is the path to go, follow it. And when you do and when you trust it, it takes you to places you love. And when your intellect kicks in and it starts to challenge, it takes you into places you don't enjoy.

[00:53:28] Vicky: Exactly that.

[00:53:29] There's a gut, heart and head, isn't it? And it's go with your gut and then your heart and your head lasts because yeah, your head will take you in places that you don't necessarily to need to be.

[00:53:40] Carolyn: Well, that's because people like Daniel Kahneman have done the research and he talks about the natural negative preset that our brains have, that we can talk ourselves out of anything or justify anything. And yet what you do so well naturally is to ride the crest of the wave that says, this is the direction, this is where I'm going.

[00:53:57] And that's where you are energized and empowered and that's where the magic starts to happen. And there was some magic that happened because you changed role, you shifted direction again. What was that about?

[00:54:08] Vicky: I was struggling and there was a local charity local to me called Itaca, and they did like CV writing and I always found it's easier for me to work with somebody, to bounce ideas and say things out loud. And I was on my own again, and my head can be quite cruel to me. So I was like, “right, okay, there we go.” And went there, did that, didn't think anything else of it. And I got a phone call one day from Tom who helped me with my CV, who was the then project manager. He said, "are you still looking for work?"

[00:54:41] Vicky: So I said, “oh,” I explained I was still teaching, being a supply teacher. And he said, "oh, it's just my path has changed and I'm looking to leave. And I just wondered, would you be interested in this role? I think you'd be perfect for it. You've got the right attitude, non-judging, open to all people, really diverse. You'd bring a great energy I'm just letting you know that the post is there and it's down the road. It works great with the kids. do you reckon? So, I thought, do you know what, why not give it a shot? I can manage projects and if I can bring good energy, let's do this. I applied for the job, went along for the interview, and I'll be honest myself, I was thinking, you know, “I'm sick of kind of trying to fit this mold that I'm assuming is there.” So I just went in I'm just having a kind of chit chat. They were asking me questions and I felt really just relaxed. I answered and openly, no expectation. I just thought, “I'll give it a whirl,” you know? And if they feel that I align with the job, great. If not, I can carry on this, and something will come along. And at the end of the interview, they went, “you're perfect for the job.” I was like, “oh, oh really? Don't you want to think about it?” And they were like, “no, we'll offer you the job right now. Would you like to take the job?” And yeah, I started there a week later.

[00:56:02] Carolyn: Amazing what happens when you show up as your authentic self in the right place, going to places where you are wanted rather than tolerated. What a lovely story. So, you spent some time there, and that was community youth work, wasn't it? How did the connection come to Gerallt and moving to work with him?

[00:56:21] And we should talk more about Gerallt, the Gerallt Evans that we referred to at the start. How did you get to meet Gerallt? He is the blacksmith.

[00:56:28] Vicky: So he is, yeah. So Gerallt and I actually met whilst I was working, at Itaca. We both used to do CrossFit. Six o'clock in the morning, we'd both be there, getting that out of the way. There we go. Good for our mental health. Good for your physical being. I was actually just chatting with, the chap that owned the gym. He asked me "was I missing doing the antiques and reclamational salvage?" I said, “I do”, I said, “but with the children and what have you, it takes you away from home quite a lot. You've got to go and find these beautiful pieces that you're going to transform. And it's just not aligning with me at the moment”. Gerallt overheard the conversation and came in and just was like, “oh, but what is it you do?”

[00:57:10] So I said, “oh, I used to do antiques, reclamational salvage, so on and so forth.” I didn't see Gerallt then for a few weeks. And I briefly touched before on kind of moving out of my house and selling everything up. Serendipity kind of aligned again. I had an old workbench as part of my antiques and reclamation salvage, and it was in the garage and I'd popped it on Facebook marketplace and the chap said, "oh, I'm going to send a friend round to come and pick it up." So, I said, "oh, cracking yeah, I'll be, I'll be there on Saturday morning". So, the guy rings and I was like, I'm sure I know that voice. That's really bizarre. And it was Gerallt. And he was like, "oh, you selling all of this? What's happening?" So explained about the life changes. And then we just got chatting, exchanged numbers and kind of dipped in and out a little bit here and there. Then, when Covid struck, I was still working and he was passing by outside the building where I worked on his way back from looking at a job in Chester, and he just pulled over and he is like, "you should pop in sometime and come and have a look at my place." He said, “you know, you mentioned that you were interested in business and kind of looking at structures I reckon you'd have a field day in our place."

[00:58:24] So I was like, "yeah, go on, why not?" Popped over and he was like, oh, what would you do? So, then I just threw a few suggestions at him about the workshop. Within two days he sent me pictures and he'd taken down this dividing wall and he'd moved the steel rack to the left-hand side and created so much more floor space. And he is like, "do you want to come back next week and have a look at something else? Like, this is how we do jobs. Can I record them any better?" And I was like, oh, this is really fun. Yeah, because I was making suggestions and he was implementing them and it wasn't taxing, but it was where I was able to take all of this theory that I'd learned and he became a Guinea pig.

[00:59:00] And in June, 2020 I got a phone call from him and he said," I've just done a phone call about converting a tram for ZIP World. Now, I can't take on the whole project. I think you'd be perfect for it. They need to basically turn this tram into um, like a working kiosk. They want a pizza oven in there, the bar, a coffee machine. Do you fancy collaborating on it? Well, obviously my answer as always is "yeah, why not?" "Great. We'll go to site and have a look at it tomorrow. And they want it doing in six weeks." And we both walked away and looked sideways at each other, and we were like, “six weeks and Covid and the whole world's ground to a halt.” And we were like, “yeah, all right, we'll do it. Yeah.” And we did! 

[00:59:47] Carolyn: Interesting what happens when serendipity strikes again, in the same way as you went to university on the basis of a conversation, now you end up working with somebody who does some most astonishing designs, huge installations, aren't they? Some of those sort of tower above people and buildings through to smaller pieces as well. All out of that serendipity. 

But you can hear the story can't you? You can hear the design as a kid got into design at uni, had a dabble with that architectural salvage, the reclamation piece, built the business skills from university at the same time, learnt about connecting with people all the way through, and I think you're a natural born connector anyway.

[01:00:28] And then you happen coincidentally, to be in the same gym. Is there such a thing as coincidence? There's a question I ask. In the same gym, open to an opportunity. The answer is yes. Why not? What's the worst that could happen? Why don't I do this? And then you deliver this piece for Zip World. Then what?

[01:00:50] Vicky: It all just snowballed. Gerallt asked, would I come in basically help him out with his admin and business structure? Would I mind hopping along to his client meetings to enable him to be in the workshop a little bit more? Then the role and jobs with Zip World just came in thick and fast.

[01:01:07] Vicky: We were being approached about lots of different jobs, we ended up tag teaming on a lot of them and turning up at site. So, from completing the job of the tram and then some smaller jobs and commissions that Gerallt had going on towards the end of that year, I was putting in systems and processes in the company, helping him get up to date with all his invoicing, et cetera. January Zip World were opening a site down in South Wales in Rhigos, their Tower site and asked me would I spend 10 days designing a new bar to fit out their new F and B (food and beverage) building? Well, the biggest commission I've ever had. And I was like, do you know what? “Why not talk me through it. What needs to be there? You know, what, what are you thinking? Do you want something that's heritage? Do you want something that's modern? Have you got something within the brand?” And they were like, “no, we want something that harks to the site”. And I spent a couple of hours walking around looking for inspiration, there's a giant coal rig there and thought, “why don't we recreate that rig inside the building and make it into a bar?” And they were like, “great, can you execute it in eight weeks?” I was like, “oh, not one of these again”! And we did it

[01:02:17] Carolyn: But you thrive, but you thrive on that. Can we do it in eight weeks? but you thrive on that and clearly Gerallt does as well.

[01:02:29] Vicky: Oh yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, Zip World is just such fast pace and we just keep responding. I did a talk for Bangor University at their design conference, And I just talked about the power of yes. You don't really have to know in the beginning, just say, yes, it's an opportunity and you don't have to have it all figured out to say yes. Just say yes and then work it out I hadn't been so self-aware that this is what I do, but now I am self-aware your curiosity drives that as well. The curiosity to find a way to make something work.

[01:03:04] Carolyn: So, let's see where we are now. You've joined the business. Not only have you joined the business, but you've really joined the business because you and Gerallt now are co-directors - equal shares of the company. How fast has it grown since that first Zip World project? Where is it now? What's it like in terms of staff and size and ambition and all of that?

[01:03:28] Vicky: So at the moment we are now a team of six. So, when I joined the team, there was Gerallt and he had two employees, both apprentices. One was a welder, the other one was a blacksmith. The apprentice blacksmith has gone on to further his own study. So, he is off getting a degree in blacksmithing, His other apprentice still works with us six years he's been with us. And the company in the last 12 months is now certified to execution class two, um, for structural steel, so BSEN 1090, so we are able to perform structural steel up to 15 stories.

In April this year, we are looking to build a new state of the art, twice the size workshop where we can drive the business forward further. I have got four students from Bangor University coming to do a work placement with us looking at developing some batch produced products and working on some existing projects so they can come along for the journey with that. We recently built the world's first subterranean crazy golf world, Yeah, 220 tons of material. How do you get that from surface level to 400 feet underground through a load of cabins and chambers? I talk a lot about collaboration, but none of this is possible without contractors, the building contractors, structural engineers, Zip World have got an amazing team, absolutely fantastic to work with. And once you've all kind of come together and get your heads together with a common goal, it's amazing what can be achieved.

[01:05:05] Carolyn: And you've certainly achieved an amazing amount from those early days of leaving home at 15, three children, one of whom has taken nurse level standard care that you've just absorbed along the way. Rediscovered yourself, lost yourself a couple of times, got back again. You might want to put a little tape over the critical voice that's there sometimes. Tape your parrot of disbelief. But that doesn't seem to stop you. I think almost your parrot seems to spur you on to do more and greater. And just so lovely to hear that you are now bringing into the business students who are studying where you were only a few years ago. 

[01:05:45] What's the next biggest thing? What's the biggest dream vision that you could imagine for this?

[01:05:51] Vicky: Oh, the vision's big and I just can't help myself. Going back to being driven by passion, one of our slogans is ‘own a piece of history’ and harking back to restoring old furniture, and those things that were beautifully handcrafted, which sometimes these days because they've got the ugly vanish on of aren't so appealing in, modern fashion trends, however, underneath that, this slow grown timber with the most beautiful grain that if only people could just take that surface of it. And then we're also in a culture of fast fashion. Everybody wants it cheaper, they want it faster, they want it to look great, whereas I'm more of the notion I would love to be making items that outlive me.

[01:06:37] When I was buying antiques and reclamation salvage, I remember buying a gate and remember paying £50 for the gate and I sold it for £650. Now it's not the monetary value, but that gate must have been 200-300 years old. It was wrought iron, it had been painted so many times and I managed to strip the paint off it, brought it back. but it was just such a beautiful, beautiful item. 

And I would love to think that we are creating something that could either be passed down through the generations or people look at our items the way that I looked at that gate. Just that it was made with love, it was made with passion, and it was made to stand the test of time. It's not damaging to the environment; it's not going to landfill. It's that type of thing when you drive past a house, and you can see that somebody's either spent a lot of time or a lot of money or put a lot of passion into something. You don't just see it, you feel it. You know when you see beautiful architecture, or somebody's taken a lot of pride in furnishing the house. Yeah. I want to be a part of that journey for other people. 

[01:07:44] Carolyn: That's a beautiful thing to have as a vision, isn't it? And it reflects all the things we've talked about, the sense of energy, the passion, the wanting to make a difference. Fascinating conversation and before we bring it to a close, I'm just going to ask you what I normally ask all guests to think about, is there a video or a book or a story?

[01:08:06] You mentioned quotes earlier, a song that's something you keep coming back to time and time again that maybe has sustained you through or that keeps you going.

[01:08:15] Vicky: So there's two things that come straight to my head. One is that my favourite film is Mary Poppins, and she makes the impossible possible, doesn't she? I absolutely love everything that is that film. She creates curiosity, and fulfills dreams - and that coupled with my reading of Steve Covey - seek the win-win - those two things come back to me relentlessly.

[01:08:39] Carolyn: So, the art of making the impossible possible, which you have clearly done all the way through your life. Hats off to you, Vicky, totally. And then seeking the win-win, which is clearly another strong value from Stephen Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. It's quite clear you are a highly effective person, driven by passion, wanting to make a difference, the real sense of understanding your own natural energy and using that to help you take things forward.

[01:09:08] It's been an absolute pleasure having you on today. Thank you ever so much for sharing your story, and let's hope that what you shared today, may help other people to change their story too. Thank you for being a fabulous guest.

[01:09:19] Vicky: Thanks so much, Carolyn. Thank you.

[01:09:25] Carolyn: We know deep down if what we're doing is right. We all have a voice, that quiet voice that knows what's good for us, the voice within which expresses disquiet. The trick is to listen to that voice, to trust it, and to take our courage in both hands so that we can move in the direction of something new, which calls to us. As the saying goes, we can't be what we can't see until something in someone else's story inspires us to take the next step to try something new, to adventure.

[01:09:58] If this episode has helped you to do just that, to change your story in some way, then please share it and the show notes that go with it on your social media channels so it can help others that you know too, to escape from a job they hate and find a career they love. I do hope you'll join me next time when we'll be hearing from another inspirational guest to help you continue to change your story for the better.

[01:10:22] See you.

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